Greek tribes being labelled 'Barbarians'

[Ptolemy]

A usual wordwide misconception is the association of the word 'Barbarian' with non-Greeks. This claim is useful for Fyromian propaganda who uses it heavily but unfortunately for them ancient texts refute them. We all know about examples like Epirotes being classed as 'barbarians' from Thucydides, although they were greek-speakers.

However the ultimate proof of Greek tribes being called 'barbarians is coming from Athenaios Deipnosophistes where Stratonicus the harp-player was asked "πότερα Βοιωτοί βαρβαρώτεροι...ή θετταλοί, Ηλείους έφησεν" meaning "who were the greatest Barbarians, the Boeotians or the Thessalians" and he replied "the Eleans".

42. And Clearchus. in the second book of his treatise on Friendship, says,-" Stratonicus the harp-player, whenever he wished to go to sleep, used to order a slave to bring him something to drink; ' not,' says he, 'because I am thirsty now, but that I may not be presently.'" And once, at Byzantium, when a harp-player had played his prelude well, but had made a blunder of the rest of the performance, he got up and made proclamation, " That whoever would point out the harp-player who had played the prelude should receive a thousand drachme." And when he was once asked by some one who were the wickedest people, he said, "That in Pamphylia, the people of Plaselis were the worst; but that the Sidetze were the worst in the wl-hIole world." And when he was asked again, according to the account given by Hegesander, which were the greatest barbarians, the Boeotians or the Thessalians he said, " The Eleans."

Athenaios VIII 350a

[Flipper]

Don't forget the Aetolians which were constantly blacklisted be the others...Se Polybious for example.

[olvios]

they used it as a derogatory or a swear word term! Great Find!

[akritas]

The humor of language, once the major dividing element between Greek and barbarian, is not completely lost in later comedy, but neither is it as significant as it was earlier. The Megarian and Boeotian of the Acharnians find their equivalent in the Doric-speaking physician of the Aspis.

An Adespoton mimics the broad a sounds of Macedonian names when a soldier returning from Asia speaks of his former commanders: Callas, Aechmias, Menoetas, and Perdiccas. But the most interesting fragment from New Comedy about language comes from Posidippus.

In it a non-Athenian takes an Athenian, and apparently a strict Atticist, to task for his too refined sensitivity to matters of dialect. He accuses the other of laying too much weight on syllables and letters and exaggerating attention to detail. This demonstrates what seems to be true from the major remains of New Comedy. The new interest in language is not how it differentiates Greeks from barbarians but how it defines Atticspeaking Greeks and others. As the fragment of Posidippus points out, there were those who made Articism into a horror, and the Scythian archer seems to have had little to say to New Comedy, whereas the Megarian and the Boeotian find many successors there.

[Ptolemy]

Plato characterized the Lesbian Aeolic Greek dialect as 'a barbarian register’ while addressing Pittakos of Mytilene. We do know though Aeolic was a Greek dialect. Another bright example about the abuse of the term "barbaros"

[Protagoras 3410]

Another example is the dialogue between Socrates and Strepsiadis in Aristophanes "Clouds". At a certain moment Socrates call Strepsiadis "ανθρωπός αμαθές ουτώσι και βάρβαρος". This make even clearer the term "barbaros" was used as a derogatory term since Strepsiadis...was a well-known Athenian. Unless skopjans insist on believing Atheneans werent greeks either.

SOCRATES aside
Oh! the ignoramus! the barbarian!
to STREPSIADES
I greatly fear, old man, it will be necessary for me to have recourse to blows. Now, let me hear what you do when you are beaten

Aristophanes, 'Nephelae' (line 491)
The Internet Classics Archive | The Clouds by Aristophanes

[Orphic_Hymn]

Here's another fine example: Aeschines, On the Embassy 2 183

A word more and I have done. One thing was in my power, fellow citizens: to do you no wrong. But to be free from accusation, that was a thing which depended upon fortune, and fortune cast my lot with a slanderer, a barbarian, who cared not for sacrifices nor libations nor the breaking of bread together; nay, to frighten all who in time to come might oppose him, he has fabricated a false charge against us and come in here. If, therefore, you are willing to save those who have laboured together with you for peace and for your security, the common good will find champions in abundance, ready to face danger in your behalf.

Here Aeschines when attempting to refute Demosthenes' accusations, clearly titles him a "barbarian" that "fabricated a false charge" against him.

[Melbourne Patriot]

The issue of translation is interesting, greeks use the word barbaroi or barbaros (in english Barbarian) which basically means someone who is tough, ruthless, barbaric, harsh etc. Someone, anyone can be tough, ruthless, barbaric or harsh but it doesnt mean they dont belong to the same race as people. The skopjeans think that they can change word meanings. If Alexander and the Macedonians werent greek the other other Greeks wouldnt have labelled them barbaroi they would have labelled them as something completely different- infact Id bet theyd probably would have called them slavi. And that my friends is a very big difference. Now the question is...why cant I find that description anywhere in ancient greek articles, poetry, texts, artifacts, anywhere?

[akritas]

http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/for...nguistics.html

[Orphic_Hymn]

Here's a nice find by Ptolemy:

Demosthenes Against Aristogiton II 17

καὶ γὰρ ταῦτα: οὕτω σκαιός ἐστι καὶ βάρβαρος τὸν τρόπον ὥστε, ὅταν ὑμᾶς ἴδῃ πρός τινας ὀργισθέντας τι καὶ μᾶλλον τοῦ δέοντος παροξυνθέντας, τηνικαῦτα παρὰ τὴν ὀργὴν ὑμῶν τὰ βουλήματα λαβὼν τοῖς καιροῖς ἐναντιοῦται.

Translation:

The truth is, he is so tactless, so un-Greek in his temperament, that when he sees you somewhat angry with anyone and rather more exasperated than the occasion calls for, he at once anticipates your wishes in the moment of your wrath and so opposes your interests.

[Orphic_Hymn]

Further proof by Demosthenes that "barbaros" was applied not only to those of foreign origin or speech but also due to their actions.

Demosthenes, Against Stephanus I 40


ὑμεῖς δ᾽ ἴσως αὐτὸν ὑπειλήφατε, ὅτι σολοικίζει τῇ φωνῇ, βάρβαρον καὶ εὐκαταφρόνητον εἶναι. ἔστι δὲ βάρβαρος οὗτος τῷ μισεῖν οὓς αὐτῷ προσῆκε τιμᾶν: τῷ δὲ κακουργῆσαι καὶ διορύξαι πράγματ᾽ οὐδενὸς λείπεται.



You have perhaps imagined, because he solecizes in his speech, that he is a barbarian and a man readily to be despised. The fellow is indeed a barbarian in that he hates those whom he ought to honor; but in villainy and in bringing matters to ruin he is second to none.