Ideas/Essays about Alexander and Greece Here...

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Ideas/Essays about Alexander and Greece Here...:closedeye

Red Devil gets all the credit here, I'm certain he wouldn't mind. This is a post from a soccer forum where he and a few other boys intellectually destroyed the Skopian arguement. Unfortunately, they pulled the strngs and our guys were banned. Red Devil gets all the credit here. The post will be two posts as it is long. Here it is:


giani_82, the history books written in Bulgaria and other ex-communist nations such as FYROM or VARDASKA seem to give different versions and accounts than the one`s recognised by international scholars,historians and acheologists of the wolrd, or international organisations such as the EU,NATO and the UN.

Now were do I begin... No one ever said anything about the ancient Thracians being of Greek descent in here. Was Thrace colonised by Hellenes (Greeks) though? Of course it was ,the most famous city being Byzantium centuries later to be renamed Constantinople and to eventually become the capital of the Byzantine empire. Now were the ancient Thracians Greek? Of course not and no one has ever said that in here. But just to let you know and inform you, the word "Thrace" is a Greek name and place-name given from the Greeks to this specific region and only through the Greek culture and Greek world has this name been preserved and protected up to today. Are you still with me? Good...

Certainly the Thracians and Illyrians were non-Greek speakers,but in the northwest,the peoples of Molossis,Orestis and Lynkestis spoke West Greek.The Macedonians spoke a dialect of Greek and although they absorbed other groups into their territory of upper Macedonia(Dardanians,Paionians,Thracians,Illyrians etc..),they were essentially "Greeks". The main difference between Macedonia and the city-states of the south was that it was ruled by a king and powerfull nobility. To the Athenians, a monarchy,kingdom or to be ruled by a king was something of the past and something that the people of Athens had not seen for many centuries. Demosthenes now refering to King Philip as a "barbarian", in no way does Demosthenes mean Philip is not Greek by blood because Demosthenes himself was not Greek 100% by blood. Never does Demosthenes challenge in any way the Greekness of Philip`s nor the purity of his blood running through his veins in "any" of his speaches. Born to an Athenian father and to a non-Greek mother, the Athenian Demosthenes had other intentions when he refered to Philip as a barbarian and he mokes Philip in the sense that Macedonians were still ruled by a king and he elaborated alot on that and secondly that Macedonians had recently ceased to be shepherds.

Demosthenes was an Athenian patriot and believed in the glory of Athens,the "Democratic" city-state and the Delian league with Athens being Hegemon and leaders of the alliance. Demosthenes`s speaches were Athenian bullshit propaganda of that time. Athenian interests and policy, was to always keep Macedonia week but friendly supporting opposition to the king,but maintaining Athenian interests (protecting Olynthos,Poteidaia,Amphipholis ect.. wich were Athenian colonies and control of gold mines in Macedonia) and friendly relations with the non-Greek neighbours of Macedonia,notably the Thracian kingdoms. Were all Athenians anti-Macedonian at the time? Of course not. Isocrates for one wrote a letter to Philip urging him to forge a Pan-Hellenic alliance (federal Greece) with Philip being Hegemon (leader of the Greeks) that would destroy the true ennemy of all Greeks wich was King Darius and the Persian empire in an act of revenge for the burning of the Acropolis and the city of Athens and all wrongs done in the past to all of Greece and the Greek world. Alexandros carried out the revenge and ended the war with the burning of Persepolis, a symbol that put an end to the Persian empire and to the war against Persia. Alexander the Great dreamed for glory and he achieved this. Alexander just like all other Greek boys of that time, grew up believing in the myths. Alexander claimed descent through Achilles from his mother side and through Heracles from his father side. You can`t get anymore Greek than that dude. He crossed with his men all the way to Afghanistan all the way into the Hindu Kush surpassing not only Heracles but all the gods. He and the Macedonians spread Hellenism (Greek culture) and founded many Greek cities (ex:Alexandria,Egypt) from Mt Olympus all the way to India.

Going back to the topic in hand, the Macedonian Kingdom emerged around 650 bc and the throne was held by the Argead family,which claimed an origin in Argos.This claim to Greek ancestry was apparently recognised when the future Alexander I wished to compete in the Olympic games (506 bc). Later Macedonians also competed in the games. The eariest centres of powers were around Aigai,with it`s royal royal burial ground in Vergina.

One of the unifying forces of the Greek world was religion. The Oracle at Delphi was in the hands of the Amphictyonic Council. Delphi was also the site of the Pan-Hellenic (all of Greece) Pythian Games wich were accompanied by an interstate truce. The Macedonians took part in these games and also at the Olympic Games wich were the most famous games of the ancient world held at Olympia in Elis every four years traditionally founded in 776 bc. After the victory in Chaironeia were the Macedonians defeated the Athenians and Thebans for Hegemony (leadership) of Greece,king Philip was accepted as Hegemon (leader) at the oracle of Delphi and in the "league of Corinth" wich took the title "The Greeks" proclaimed king Philip officially as Hegemon (leader) of the Pan-Hellenic alliance (federal and united Greece) in the war against the Barbarians. It would have been impossible for Philip and then Alexander to lead a Greek army if they weren`t Greek by blood.

The name Macedonia is a Greek place name given by the first Greeks that came to Emathia with Caranus being it`s leader. Besides, the name Caranus is obviously very closely related to the most archaic Greek word "koiranos" or in the Doric dialect "karanos" (ruler).
It is certainly possible to identify these two words, as they both stem from the same root "kara" meaning head, hence leader, royal master.
The word Macedonian is a Greek word (Μακεδων,Macedon) meaning "tall" in Greek. Other place names such as Aegae,vergina ect.. are Greek place names and finally symbols as the Argead sun wich symbolises the Argead family and dynasty with it`s origins coming from Argos. The vast majority of even the earliest human names, whether dynastic names or not, are Greek, formed from Greek roots and according to Greek models: Hadista, Philista, Sostrata, Philotas, Perdikkas, Machatas and hundreds of others. In addition, I have now done additional work to prove the Greekness and how purely Hellenic were the "names" of Alexander the Great,his parents,teachers,friends and generals and all Macedonians that spread Hellenism (Greek culture) and the Koine (Greek language) from Mt Olympus (Greece) all the way to India.

NAMES:

PHILIP: From the Greek name PHILIPOS wich means "lover of horse" derived from the Greek words philos "lover" and ipos "horse". Philip was Alexander`s father and King of the Greek kingdom of Macedon.
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ALEXANDER: From the Greek name ALEXANDROS which means "helper" or "defender of man", derived from the Greek words alexein "to defend, to help" and andros "man". Alexander was the Great Greek conquering hero from the Greek kingdom of Macedonia.
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BUCEPHALUS: From the Greek name BUCEPHALAS wich means "oxhead",derived from the Greek words Bu "ox" and Cephalas "head". Bucephalus was Alexander`s beautifull Thessalian horse that took him from Greece all the way to India. Bucephalus died in India and Alexander honoured him by founding a city in India after the horse`s name.
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LEONIDAS: From the Greek name LEONIDAS wich means "lion" derived from the Greek word leon "lion". Alexander was tutored first from Leonidas who happened also to be Olympias (Alexander`s mother) uncle.
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LYSIMACHUS: From the Greek name LYSIMACHOS wich means "a loosening of battle" from the Greek words lysis "a release, loosening" and mache "battle".

1) Lysimachus was the second teacher that tutored Alexander. Lysimachus always refered to Alexander as "Achilles", Heaphastion as "Patroclus" and himself as "Phoenix" in all of his courses.

2) This was the name also of another Lysimachus who was one of Alexander the Great's generals. Lysimachus was born in Thessaly and eventually became a citizen of Pella. After Alexander's death Lysimachus took control of Thrace.
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ARISTOTLE: From the Greek name Aristotelis which means "the best purpose", derived from the Greek words aristos "best" and telos "purpose, aim". Aristotle was the last that tutored Alexander the great ( o megas Alexandros) before Alexander went on to conquer and add all of Asia and Egypt into Greece.

http://www.xtratime.com/forum/showth...106post2873106

Red devil continues his post:


__________________________________________________ __________________

CLEITUS: Means "splendid, famous" in Greek. This was the name of one of Alexander the Great's generals. In Greek KLEITOS.
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ANTIGONUS: Means "like the ancestor" from the Greek words anti "like" and goneus "ancestor". This was the name of one of Alexander the Great's generals. After Alexander died, he took control of most of Asia Minor. In Greek he is called ANTIGONOS.
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ANTIPATER: From the Greek name ANTIPATROS, which means "like the father" from the Greek words anti "like" and pater "father". This was the name of an officer of Alexander the Great, who became the regent of Macedon during Alexander's absence.
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DIOGENES: Means "born of Zeus" from the Greek words Dios "of Zeus" and genes "born". This was the name of a Greek Cynic philosopher that was visited by Alexander the great.Why is Diogenes included in the list,for the simple reason to show that all Greeks from all over the Greek world had names with Greek meanings.
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CLEOPATRA: From the Greek name KLEOPATRA which means "glory of the father", derived from the Greek words kleos "glory" combined with patros "of the father". This was the name of one of Alexander the great`s half sister and queens of Egypt from the Ptolemaic royal family, including Cleopatra VII, the last of this royal family that ruled Egypt.
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SELEUCUS: From the Greek name SELEUKOS wich means "to be light,to be white",derived from the Greek word leukos "white".This was the name of one of Alexander`s generals that claimed most of Asia and founded the Seleucid dynasty after the death of Alexander in Babylon.

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LEONNATUS: From the Greek name LEONNATOS wich means "here is the lion",derived from the Greek words Leon "lion" and natos "here is". Leonnatus was another of Alexander`s generals.
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NEARCHUS: From the Greek name NEARCHOS wich means "new beginning",derived from the Greek words Nea "new" archus "beginning". Nearchus was the captain and in command of the ships in sea for Alexander the great. Nearchus was born in Crete and Alexander loved him and respected him very much.Why is Nearchus included in this list if he is originaly from the island of Crete, for the simple reason to show that all Greeks from all over the Greek world had names with Greek meanings.

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HEPHEASTION: From the Greek name HEPHEASTIONAS wich means "volcano",derived from the Greek word epheastion "volcano". Hepheastion was Alexander`s best friend and some say male lover. Hepheastion immitated Patroclus just as Alexander immitated and acted as Achilles. When Alexander and the Greek pan-hellenic army crossed the Hellespont,Alexander and Hepheastion visited Troy to pay tribute to the tombs of Achilles and Patroclus. Legend says that both of them runned naked around their heroes and ancestors tombs to pay homage and respect to both of them.

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THESSALONIKA: From the Greek name THESSALONIKI wich means " Thessalian victory",derived from the Greek words Thessalo "Thessalian" and niki "victory". Thessaloniki was one of Alexander`s sisters that Philip named his daughter to honour his victory over the Thessalians in a battle. After the death of Alexander,Thessaloniki married Cassander (Cassandros) who was a general of Alexander and also son of Antipater who became regent of Macedon while Alexander was fighting the Persian empire. The city of Thessaloniki (Greek place name) was founded by the king of Macedonia, Cassandros, in 315 B.C. to honour his beautifull wife.The name Thessaloniki has been preserved for over 2300 years from the Greek speaking population of Macedonia and today's modern Greek republic and the Greek government. The Slavs that have emigrated to the Macedonian region over 1000 years later...refuse to agknowldege the history behind the beautifull Greek name and always refer to the city as "Solun". If they were direct descendants of the ancient Macedonians as they claim to be, how come they refer to the city in it's "slavic" term as "Solun" and not in it's original and pure Greek place-name of "Thessaloniki". The explanation is very simple,they never had a clue since they arrived 10 centuries later than the established Greek speaking ancient-Macedonians of the region.

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PERDICCAS: From the Greek name Perdikkas wich means in Greek "Βird". Another general and friend of Alexander. The word Perdikkas is also used today in the Greek language to describe a bird.

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Do I need to continue? The names that the ANCIENT MACEDONIANS had were purely Greek because clearly and withought a doubt they were Greeks. The Macedonians were in fact the greatest of Greek patriots and always defended Greece from the northern barbarians.

Now we should all conclude that the Macedonians belonged to the family of Greek-speaking peoples and used the Greek alphabet (LANGUAGE), worshiped the Greek Olympian gods (RELIGION) and the royal house claimed descent through Heracles (BLOOD). They carried also Hellenic (GREEK) human names and Macedonia is a Hellenic (GREEK) name with Hellenic (GREEK) place names in the region. Finally,the Argead Sun is a Greek symbol representing the Macedonian dynasty and it`s origins of the Argeads from Argos.

1) Homoglosson (language) = Greek

2) Homothryskeion (religion) = Greek

3) Homoaimon (blood) = Greek

Conclusion: 1+2+3= The name Macedonia,the ancient Macedonians and their symbols were, are and will always be Greek and of Hellenic origin.

Other ways of understanding the topic in hand appart from looking at the inscriptions and Greek language ingraved on the stones of the ancient monuments left behind all over the conquered lands of Alexander's Hellenic empire stretching from Mt Olympus (Greece) to Alexandria (Egypt) past Persia all the way to India is by also reading Egyptian,Persian,Jewish,Arabic,Indian ect..books of how they describe and refer to Alexander and the Macedonians. In all books and passages you will see that Alexander`s troops and Alexander himself are always referred and described as the Greeks that colonised,the Greeks that arrived from..,the Greeks that conquered and finally Alexander the "Greek king". Even the "Bible" has passages that refers to Alexander as the "Greek king" and so does the "Koran" and Jewish books because everyone back then considered the Macedonians as part of the Greek nation.

I apologise to all for the long post...There is absolutly nothing else to say.

http://www.xtratime.com/forum/showth...106post2873106

Here's something inscribed by the man himself:


Dedication by Alexander the Great to Athena Polias

Greek, around 330 BC
From Priene, Asia Minor



In 336 BC Alexander the Great embarked on a programme of territorial expansion, which would eventually extend the boundaries of the Greek world to Egypt in the south and to India in the East. In 334 BC Alexander crossed the Hellespont, the narrow strait separating Europe and Asia, and went first to Troy. There he dedicated his armour to Athena and laid a wreath at the tomb of Achilles, the legendary hero and champion of the Greeks in the Trojan War. This act prefigured Alexander's role as a new Achilles liberating the Greek cities of Asia Minor from Asiatic rule.

That same summer of 334 BC, a successful engagement with the Persian army at the river Granicus, east of Troy, opened the gates of Asia Minor, and Alexander proceeded to tour the Greek cities of the west coast, expelling their Persian garrisons.

On reaching Priene, he made a further dedication to Athena. There the townspeople were laying out their new city and building a temple to its patron goddess. Alexander offered funds to complete the temple, and the inscription on this wall block, cut into a block of marble, records his gift. The inscription was found in the nineteenth century by the architect-archaeologist Richard Pullan leading an expedition on behalf of the Society of Dilettanti. It reads: 'King Alexander dedicated the Temple to Athena Polias'

Here's something inscribed by the man himself.

An impressive find.

Sorry for the length but there's some valuable info here which I found on another forum:


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Illyrius
Registered User
Posts: 31
(10/14/03 3:31 am)
Reply Historical Evidence of the Greekness of Macedonia!!!
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A BRIEF HISTORICAL REVIEW OF THE MACEDONIAN QUESTION

1. Historical Evidence of the Greekness of Macedonia
All the historical sources are agreed on the location of Macedonia: it lay between the Aegean Sea and the Mounts Cambounia, Pieria and Olympus to the south, lakes Ochrid and Prespa and Mounts Bambouna, Skomion (Rila Planina) and Rhodopon to the north, the river Nestos to the east and the Grammos and Pindus ranges to the west.

The inhabitants of this area (Macedonians) were one of the most ancient Greek tribes. Their closest relatives were the Thessalians and particularly the Magnesians, with whom they shared Aeolian ancestry. The language they spoke was among the oldest forms of Greek, and it had affinities with the Aeolian, Arcado-Cypriot and Mycenean dialects. The religion of the Madeconians was that of the other Greeks, and their myths and traditions were those found throughout the Greek world (1).

King Philip II of Macedon and his son Alexander the Great - to whom Skopje is currently attempting to attribute a 'Slavomacedonian' (sic) identity - acted not simply as Greeks but as Panhellenic leaders in the sense that they embodied the old idea of the formation of a united Greek state with the amalgamation of the Greek city-states. As Johann Gustav Droysen - among other scholars - points out in his History of Alexander the Great, both Philip and Alexander "brought to the peoples of Asia and implanted in them not the Macedonian culture, which had no independent standing, but the Greek culture".

In subsequent periods, and especially after the appearance in the Balkans of the Slavs and Bulgars (6th and 7th centuries AD), the geographical area of Macedonia as defined above continued to be the bulwark and bastion of the Greek race, just as it had been in antiquity. Polybius calls Macedonia "the advanced line of defence" and pays tribute to the Macedonians for fighting the barbarians ('non-Greeks') to preserve the security of the (other) Greeks" (2). This view is reiterated for the Byzantine period by the French historian Paul Lemerle in his classic work Philippe et la Macedoine Orientale (Paris, 1945).

No mention is made of 'Macedonia' or 'Macedonians' as a distinct ethnological group in any official text of either the recent or the mo Neither the Treaty of Berlin, for example, nor the Treaty of San Stefano which was revoked by it make any reference to such concepts. The official Turkish census of 1905 gives figures for the populations of Greeks, Bulgarians and "quasi-Bulgarians" in the vilayets of Thessaloniki and Monastir, where the Greeks were in the majority, but contains no reference to 'Macedonians'-for the simple reason that none of those questioned stated such descent (3).

E.M. Cousinery, who served as French consul in Thessaloniki, informs us in his Voyage dans la Macedoine (Paris, 1851) that "the Bulgarians" (as the Slav-speakers were called at that time) "never penetrated into the forests below Mt. Vermion, where the population remained Greek". The German geographer Leonard D. Schultze, writing of the same area in his Macedonien Landschafts und Kulturbilder (Jena, 1927) observes that in terms of language, tradition, cultural affinities, national will and religion the inhabitants of Macedonia are "as genuinely Greek as their brothers to the south". Both these authors repeat, in different ways, what Lord Salisbury, representing Britain at the Congress of Berlin, said at the session of 19 June 1878: "Macedonia and Thrace are as Greek as Crete".

The fact that a small percentage of the population of this area also speaks a language which is fundamentally Bulgarian (though containing numerous loan words from Slav, Greek, Vlach and Albanian) is no proof of Slav or Bulgarian origins. As demonstrated in the recent past with the forcible removal to Greece of Greeks from Asia Minor who spoke not a word of the Greek language, the linguistic criterion, taken in isolation, is of no value whatever.

It is also characteristic that among the freedom-fighters of the 'Macedonian Struggle' (1904-1908) there were many who spoke the local tongue but were fully Greek in terms of national consciousness. Their names-Kotas, Dalipis, Kyrou, Gonos and others-are still remembered. The Russian historian E. Goloubinsti (4) wrote of these Greeks who were not Greek speakers that "they had relentless hate and profound contempt for everything Bulgarian or Slav".

After the Balkan Wars of 1912-1913, the area occupied by ancient Macedonia was divided up, 51% of it becoming Greek territory, 38,32% going to Yugoslavia and 10,11% passing into Bulgarian hands (5). This brought about a territorial status in which, with the voluntary exchange of populations under bilateral agreements (the Treaty of Neuilly, 1919, which provided for the voluntary exchange of populations between Greece and Bulgaria, and that of 1926 known as the 'Kafantaris-Moloff agreement') and the settling of Greeks from Turkey in the Greek part of Macedonia, the population of that area became purely Greek even though some of the inhabitants were bilingual. In other words, Greek Macedonia became an entirely homogeneous part of the Greek State. This became even more the case in the post-Occupation period (1945-1949), when almost all the bilingual inhabitants of the area whose national consciousness was not Greek moved to neighbouring states, and to Yugoslavia in particular (6), where their quasi-Greek or quasi-Bulgarian nationalities were mutated into the 'Macedonian' - that is, Slav-Macedonian - nationality.

The emergence of this state of affairs was preceded by a number of violent incidents, such as the Ilinden rising, during which the Bulgarians were alleged to have revolted against the Turks on 2 August 1903 in the town of Krushevo, near Monastir, where the population was overwhelmingly Greek. In fact, however, the Bulgarians rose in revolt against the Greek population, whom they attempted to exterminate-with the co-operation of the Turks-without significantly harming the other inhabitants of the town (7).

Until the year 1914, the concepts of "Macedonia" as a Slav state and of "the Macedonian race" as a separate nationality were completely unknown. The part of Macedonia which was incorporated into Serbia, like that which became Bulgarian, was a narrow strip of territory along the Greek border, and it amounted to a very small proportion of Serbia as a whole. Skopje, which today claims to be the capital of what it calls "the Republic of Macedonia", in fact lies a considerable distance outside Macedonia. The "People' s Republic of Macedonia" later renamed "Socialist Republic of Macedonia", was founded at the end of the German Occupation as a deliberate political attempt intended - with the conceding of the Skopja and Tetova districts, which had never belonged to Macedonia in any sense - to state the presence of a Serbian population in the thinly-populated part of Macedonia beyond the Greek frontiers (where the inhabitants were Serbs, Greeks, Greek Vlachs, quasi-Turkish Muslims and Bulgarians), or, at least, of a Slav-speaking population with a language of their own and a shifting national consciousness. The founding of the People's Republic of Macedonia was thus intended to lead, in the long term, to the re-constitution of a 'Macedonian' state-though this time under a Slav mantle and with the aim of giving Yugoslavia an outlet on the Aegean.

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Illyrius
Registered User
Posts: 35
(10/14/03 3:52 am)
Reply Re: Historical Evidence of the Greekness of Macedonia!!!
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MACEDONIA - THE CRADLE AND SHIELD OF HELLENISM

Thessaloniki Federation of Western Macedonian Societies
Thessaloniki 1992

EDITORS-IN-CHIEF: AR. COSTOPOULOS
TRANSLATION: Translations, Interpreting Agency WEHRHEIM

In the concise text which follows in Greek and English the Administrative Council of the Thessaloniki Federation of Western Macedonian Societies presents a brief picture of the historic region of Macedonia and the brilliant course of its flourishing Greek civilization from the 3rd millenium BC down to the present day.

It serves as a peaceful response to the insolent counterfeiters of history, to those who have stopped at nothing to usurp our name and the name of our homeland, to those who have designs on this Macedonia of ours, which will for ever be GREEK.

Macedonia, the cradle and shield of the Greeks, with its historic capitals of Aegeae, Pella and Thessaloniki, was, is, and always will be an integral part of GREECE. C. STERGIADIS AR. COSTOPOULOS President Gen. Sectretary Members I.TZIMAS, G.HASAPIS, B.CHRISTOPOULOS,P.HOLERIS, G.LAZARIDIS, C.SARAGIOTOU, EL.PANIDOU, C.SIAMETIS, D.MOURTZILAS.

CRADLE OF HELLENISM

It was in Macedonia that the Greeks first appeared. Greeks were living in Western Macedonia as early as the 3rd millenium BC. This region is not simply Greek, but the cradle of Hellenism.

THE MACEDNOI

These Greeks included the Macednoi. Another branch, the Dorians, later moved south, whilst the Macedonians remained in the north, to emerge centuries later, prosperous and indestructible, as key players in Greek and world history.

GODS - MUSES - HEROES

In the south-eastern corner of this birth-place of the Proto- Hellenes, on the lofty peaks of Mt.Olympus, the Greeks enthroned their gods, whilst below, in Pieria, sang the Ancient Greek Muses. One of the Greek Macedonians' mythical heroes was Hercules.

THE MACEDONIANS

The history of the Macedonians had its illustrious beginnings in Orestis, i.e. the Kastoria area, in about 700 BC. From here came the Macedonian kings, the Argeads.
Herodotus (484-420? BC) speaks of the Greekness of the Macedonians: "They are Greeks," he writes, "and I myself happen to know it is so." He was well acquainted with the fact and needed no-one to prove it to him.

I AM OF GREEK STOCK

Herodotus preserved what the Macedonian King Alexander I (498-454 BC) said to the Athenian ambassadors during the Persian wars: "Athenians...I, too, am of ancient Greek stock and I would not like to see Greece enslaved." This was the Macedonian who, after the Battle of Plataea (479 BC) was honoured by the Athenians "as one of the Greekest of Greeks" and, as a Greek, was crowned victor at Olympia.

MACEDONIA

The land of the Greek Macedonians was Macedonia, which began with Orestis and during Philip's time was extended from the Pindus and Mt. Olympus about as far as Velesa (to the north) and the Nestos river (to the east).

ORESTIKON ARGOS

Appian (2nd century AD) mentions "Argos in Orestis, whence the Argeadae Macedones" and asserts that the founder of the Macedonian dynasty came from Argos, which was built near the source of the Aliakmon, Orestikon Argos. This is also mentioned by Strabo (66BC - 24AD) and Pausanias (2nd Century AD).

THE MACEDONIANS ADVANCE

The Macedonians from Orestis united with their Greek Macedonian neighbours in Elimea, Eordaea, Lyncestis, Pelagonia and northern Tymphaea and, having gained considerably in strength, advanced eastwards, conquered Aegeae and spread into Central Macedonia. Later they expanded across the wider region of ancient Macedonia, which was defined earlier. It was here that the Greek Macedonians, who had existed since 2000BC set down their roots, and it is here, in 2000 AD, that genuine Greeks continue to live and call home, despite the dramatic fortunes of forty centuries.

SHIELD OF THE GREEKS

The Macedonians, who were constantly "fighting the Barbarians to maintain the stability of the Greeks", as Polybius of Arcadia writes, maintained their forces in prime condition, organized themselves and, whilst their southern brothers were being worn down by civil wars, they entered the limelight of history, vitalizing the Greek spirit and carrying it unvanquished as far as the Indus.

PHILIP

Philip II (359-336 BC) was the ingenious general and politician who made Macedonia a very mighty power. Later he attempted to unite the Greeks in one state and to crush their age- old enemies, the Persians. In 337BC he established the "Council of the Greeks" at Corinth. A new historical era had begun. Then suddenly Philip was assassinated.
It was then that Alexander came onto the scene, a phenomenon the likes of which would never be seen again in the history of the world.

ARISTOTLE

Aristotle, from Stageira in Halkidiki, the great Greek philosopher whose intellect conquered the nations, served as teacher to the young man,who "shed light all over the world".

ALEXANDER THE GREAT

In the summer of 336 BC Alexander became King of Macedonia, "a great general, a great politician and a great law-giver", as Napoleon the Great wrote. Of all the people ever to have lived, he was the first in history to be called "Great".

A NEW, GREAT AND GREEK WORLD

In the spring of 334 BC at the age of twenty-two "Alexander [son] of Philip" rose up like a demigod in the eyes of the world of his time and through his great campaign, which was "victorious, brilliant, glorious, more highly praised than any other and unrivalled", he changed the course of world history.
In Alexander's great state and those of his successors the torch of Greek civilization was carried far and wide, the Greek tongue became the universal lingua franca, and the world was rapidly Hellenized. "The prince of Greece shall come..." wrote the prophet Daniel. And the Jews themselves, as is mentioned in the Old Testament, could see that "the rule of the Greeks (Macedonians)" was leading them "directly to (assuming) the Greek character".
The Greek Macedonians were creating a "new, great Greek world...".

THE ROMANS

In 168 BC Macedonia was subjugated by the Romans...

PASSING THROUGH MACEDONIA...

In 49AD Saint Paul, "passing through Macedonia", preached the Word of God at Philippi, Thessaloniki and Veria in Greek as his audiences were Greeks. His epistles to the Thessalonians and the Philippians, as well as that to the Corinthians, were written in Greek as they were addressed to Greeks.

THESSALONIKI

Thessaloniki, built in 315BC and Macedonia's third capital after Aegeae and Pella, was at that time the greatest administrative, commercial and cultural centre in the Balkans.

THEY ALL PROCLAIM THEIR GREEKNESS

Splendid monuments from the ancient, Hellenistic and Roman eras, which are constantly being brought to light by the farmer's plough or the archaeologist's pick, at Aegeae, Pella, Dion, Thessaloniki, Sindos, Derveni, Edessa, Veria, Levkadhia, Aeane, Olynthus, Potidaea, Amphipolis, Philippi, Argos Orestikon, Florina and as far north as Stobi, testify to the fact that Greeks were living in these places as early as the 3rd millenium BC and that it was the Greeks who created them.

THE BYZANTINE ERA

During the Byzantine era Thessaloniki became "Symvasilevousa" (joint capital), a centre and beacon of Hellenism which, with its Christian civilization, shed its radiance all over the Balkans and even further afield. At this time two of its sons, Cyril and Methodius, spread the light of Christ and Greece amongst the Slavs.

OTHER CENTRES OF MACEDONIAN HELLENISM

Throughout that thousand-year period Macedonia, along with other centres - Philippi, Serres, Melenikon and Stromnitsa to the east, Veria, Kastoria, Servia, Heraclea and Ochrid to the west, and Prilep and Velesa etc. to the north - was the powerful lungs of the Greek Empire of Byzantium.

THE SLAVS AND THE BULGARS

During the first decades of the 6th century AD the Balkans began to suffer the assaults of the Slavs, who lived in south-east Poland and White Russia and were slaves of the Avars. This is why they were called Sklavenoi, Sklavoi, Slavs. The Avars used the Slavs in their assaults on Byzantium. In so doing they opened up the way for them and whetted their appetite for predatory raids on Greek territories.
In 681 AD the Danube was also crossed by the Bulgars, who established their own state between the Danube and the Balkan Peninsula, in Moesia.

GREEK MACEDONIA A TARGET

Since then Macedonia, with its fertile plains, warm beaches and, above all, its wealthy capital, has been the target of all these groups.
Their conversion to the Christian faith, which took place in the 9th century, has not proved able to appease them.
The last Slav invader Stephen Dusan divided his short-lived state into a northern section with the Serbian lands, about as far as Velesa, and a southern section with the Greek (as they were called) lands.

THE TURKS

During the 14th and 15th centuries virtually all of the Balkans were subjugated by the Turks.
Legends, traditions and heroic songs tell of the resistance of the Macedonians against the Turks and the capture of the Macedonian castles. In this large and fertile area the conquerors established many powerful military centres, permanently settled many Turks and endeavoured to wipe out the Greek element.

FREEDOM STRUGGLES

In Macedonia the revolutionary movements started up at the same time as the country was subjugated. The Macedonian mountains became filled with klephts and also saw the appearance of the first Greek armatoloi.

AN ASTONISHING PERIOD OF PROSPERITY

During the period of Turkish rule many communities in Macedonia organized themselves in an exemplary fashion. In the 17th century these witnessed the beginning of an astonishing flourishing of economic and cultural life. During this period many Macedonians elevated themselves from persecuted serfs to become wealthy merchants, businessmen, bankers, scholars and nobles. They became national benefactors. They founded schools, libraries and public welfare institutions. They made a decisive contribution to the spiritual awakening and national resurrection of Modern Greece.

THE FIRST GREEK NEWSPAPER

In 1791 the Markides Pouliou brothers from Siatista published the first Greek newspaper. They printed the Great Map and the songs of Rhigas, together with whom other Macedonians were martyred in the cause of freedom.

A NOBLE PART OF GREECE

In 1714 the Frenchman P.Tarillon, who had lived for many years in Thessaloniki, called Macedonia "a noble part of Greece".
The Macedonians of that time, with their splendid communities in Austro-Hungary, Moldovlachia, Russia etc. - centres of Greek education and civilization - were without question genuine Greeks; as Greeks they were honoured with titles and offices by foreigners and they were referred to as Greeks by history.

1821

In Macedonia there had been revolutionary movements in 1495, 1571, 1611, 1770 and 1809... Many Greek Macedonians were initiated into the Philike Etaireia and became leading activists. Yet in the Macedonian region every revolutionary movement was doomed. The uprising in Halkidiki, Mt. Olympus and Naoussa in 1821 and 1822 was bloodily suppressed. Many Macedonians fought in Moldovlachia and in Southern Greece.

FOR THE LIBERATION OF MACEDONIA

The Macedonians, continuing their struggle for freedom, rose up again in 1854, with Tsamis Karatasos in Halkidiki and Theodoros Ziakas in Western Macedonia. But these movements also failed. Yet the hope of liberation remained unextinguished.

THE WHOLE OF MACEDONIA IN GREECE

In 1867 the Serbs fought alongside the Greeks with the aim of liberating all the Christians in the Balkans. It was agreed that,if the Serbs gained Old Serbia, the whole of Macedonia would devolve to Greece.

PANSLAVISM

In the middle of the last century Russia raised the standard of Panslavism. In order to carry out its plans it awakened the Bulgarians. The consequences of this Slavic policy were paid by the Greeks of Macedonia.

THE BULGARIAN EXARCHATE

In 1870 the sultan, pressed by Russia, recognised the Bulgarian Exarchate. The Bulgarians, who had never thought of fighting for their freedom, broke away from the Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople.

THE MACEDONIANS STRUGGLE

These events mark the commencement of the Macedonian Struggle and form the beginning of new trials and tough struggles in Macedonia, which was still held in bondage by the Turks.

ONLY GREECE

During this period designs were also held on Macedonia, and mainly Thessaloniki, by Austro-Hungary. However, in 1876 the Austrian consul in the Macedonian capital wrote of the Macedonians to his government: "On national issues all of them to a man have the same feelings and regard only Greece as their true homeland...".

THE TREATY OF SAN STEFANO

In February 1878 the Russians, vistors in the Russo-Turkish war being waged at that time, reached the outskirts of Constantinople. There, in the suburb of San Stefano on 19 February 1878, the treaty bearing that name was signed. This provided for the creation of a "Greater Bulgaria", which stretched from the Danube and the Black Sea as far as the Aegean, Mt. Olympus and Grammos!

LIKE DORIC COLUMNS

At this the Greek Macedonians rose up like Doric columns over their ancestral land in order to rescue it from the clutches of the Slavs and liberate it from their Turkish oppressors. In north- west Macedonia a New Philike Etaireia was founded, with Anastasios Picheon from Ochrid as its moving spirit, whilst the Macedonians in Athens, led by Stephanos Dragoumis from Vogatsikon, formed the Macedonian Committee. In Siatista a notable boldly and indignantly declared to an English colonel that Macedonia would only become Bulgarian "when the Bulgarians trod over the dead bodies of the Greeks".

THE GREEK MACEDONIANS REVOLT

On 18 and 19 February 1878 two revolutionary governments in Kozani (Bourinos) and Litochoro "proclaimed the union of Macedonia with mother Greece". The movement was spontaneous. All alone, practically unarmed and lacking co-ordination and aid, from Mt. Olympus up to the Prespa lakes the Macedonians fought until the end of that year. And they succeeded in putting an end to the Bulgaria of San Stefano.

THE CONGRESS OF BERLIN

The Treaty of Berlin created a smaller Bulgaria, between the Danube and the Balkan Peninsula. Macedonia remained part of Turkey.

THE COMITADJIS

The Bulgarians, however, did not forget about the Bulgaria of San Stafano. At first they began to take action under the deceitful slogan "Macedonia for the Macedonians". Soon, however, they abandoned their pretence and set about annexing Macedonia to Bulgaria by fire and sword. They began to seize churches and schools from the Greeks, to murder priests, teachers and notables, to carry out arbitrary raids on Greeks Macedonia. The Macedonian Greeks began to suffer severe hardships and the decade 1894-1904 was a dramatic one for them.

THE FIRST MACEDONIAN FREEDOM FIGHTERS

At that time the first native Macedonian freedom fighters appeared: Kotas, Vangelis, Dalipis and other Macedonian combatants, who rose up in spontaneous response to the Bulgarians with their own rebel bands. Macedonia began to acquire her own defensive force.

THE NATIONAL LEADERSHIP OF THE CHURCH

The Metropolitan of Drama Chrysostomos, who was later to become a national martyr in Smyrna, wrote: "For Macedonia to become Bulgarian, history and ethnography must be stifled...". At the same time Metropolitan Germanos began to take the offensive in Kastoria.

ION DRAGOUMIS

From Greek Monastiri Ion Dragoumis rallied the Greeks to action: "We've had enough martyrs, we need heroes... If we save Macedonia, Macedonia will save us... If we save Macedonia, we will be saved".

PAVLOS MELAS

In August 1904 Pavlos Melas came to Macedonia with thirty companions. On 13 October he hallowed Macedonia with his blood and became a symbol of the Macedonian Struggle.

A STRUGGLE UNTO DEATH

The death of Melas shook the Greek nation and gave a new form to the Macedonian Struggle. Many officers soon succeeded Melas in the fight, which spread from Kastoria, Florina, Monastiri and Morihovo as far as Stromnitsa, Drama, Melenikon and Nevrokopi.

VICTORY

In 1905, 1906 and 1907, exceptionally critical years, the forces of the Macedonian freedom fighters, small but well organized, with the unanimous support of all the Macedonians, achieved a real feat. The Bulgarians, defeated, began to return to their bases. Macedonia had been saved.
This phase of the Macedonian Struggle ended in 1908 with the Revolution of the Young Turks.

HAIL, HAIL, O LIBERTY!

In the autumn of 1912, after a period of servitude that had lasted five centuries, Macedonia was liberated. Just at that moment the Serbs managed to seize Northern Macedonia, taking in the thorougly Greek Monastiri, Ochrid, Krusovo, Morihovo, Gevgheli, Doirani and Stromnitsa... The Bulgarians attempted to occupy Thessaloniki! In the summer of 1913, however, they retreated again, defeated at Lachanas and Kilkis and in other battles. Nevertheless, they retained North-western Macedonia, with Melenikon, Petric and Nevrokopi...
A small part of Western Macedonia, including Koritsa and Moschopolis, was annexed by the powers of that time to the newly-founded state of Albania.

THE EPIC OF THE MACEDONIAN STRUGGLE

History, legends and songs tell of the exploits and the sacrifices of the Macedonian freedom fighters. Who were they and how many of them were there? Nobody knows. The land of Macedonia treasures their bones lovingly in her bosom.

THE NEW SLAV CONSPIRACY

The Macedonian Struggle, one of the most important struggles of Modern Greece, is, it has turned out, not over, and will never be over "so long as generations of barbarians sweep down to choke the Greek seed", as Ion Dragoumis said. The present threat comes from Skopje, which has never fallen within the geo- physical and historical boundaries of Macedonia. There, insolent counterfeiters, aided by other enemies of Greece, are falsifying history, usurping the glorious and eternally Greek names of Macedonia and the Macedonians, forging non-existent nations and now, having eradicated the Greek element in the part of Macedonia which they seized, they are conspiring against free Greek Macedonia.

THE DEBT

Macedonia is Greek. Monuments, names, history, traditions and legends, the vivid traces left behind by the civilization and sacrifices of the Greek Macedonians in present-day Greek Macedonia and beyond our present northern borders testify and proclaim that they are GREEK.
We Greek Macedonians will keep this most beautiful and historic land of our fathers free and Greek for ever.

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Illyrius
Registered User
Posts: 37
(10/14/03 4:03 am)
Reply Re: Historical Evidence of the Greekness of Macedonia!!!
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MACEDONIA
by Stavros Stavridis

The scope of this article is to show how non-Greek historians accept the fact that Macedonian kings, Alexander the great and his father Philip included, considered themselves and their people to be Hellenes. The few books that I selected are enough to show to those who want to steal part of the Hellenic history that the historians Greeks or non-Greeks, who studied seriously, say the same things about Macedonia and its Hellenic origin.

Of course nobody ever said that Slaves who dwell the northern part of Macedonia have not the right to make their own nation, but they have the obligation to find their roots and respect their own history and the other's as well.
Here are some sections of the books that identify the Macedonians.

1. The story of civilization : part II THE LIFE OF GREECE by Will Durant (2,000,000 copies) published by SIMON AND SCHUSTER

"...From Thrace we move southward into Macedonia, and our cultural circumvolution of Greece is complete. It is a picturesque land, with soil once rich in minerals, plains fertile in grain and fruit, and mountains disciplining a hardy stock that was destined to conquer Greece. The mountaineers and peasants were of mixed race, predominantly Illyrian and Thracian; perhaps they were akin to the Dorians who conquered the Peloponnesus. The ruling aristocracy claimed Hellenic lineage (from Heracles himself), and spoke a dialect of Greek. The earlier capital, Edessa, stood on a vast plateau between the plains that stretched to Epirus and the ranges that reached to the Aegean. Farther east lay Pella, capital-to-be of Philip and Alexander; and near the sea was Pydna, where the Romans would conquer the conquering Macedonians, and win the right to transmit Greek civilization to the Western world..." Page 69-70

"Only freeborn Greeks were allowed to compete in the Olympic games..." Page 213

"...If we would understand Alexander we must always remember that he bore in his veins the drunken vigor of Philip and the barbaric intensity of Olympias. Furthermore, Olympias claimed descent from Achilles. Therefore the Iliad had a special fascination for Alexander; when he crossed the Hellespont he was, in his interpretation, retracing the steps of Achilles; when he conquered Hither Asia he was completing the work that his ancestor had begun at Troy. Through all his campaigns he carried with him a copy of Iliad annotated by Aristotle; often he placed it under his pillow at night beside his dagger, as if to symbolize the instrument and the goal. Leonidas, an austere Molossian, trained the boy's body, Lysimachus taught him letters, Aristotle tried to form his mind...To some extend Aristotle made a Hellene of him...Physically, Alexander was an ideal youth. He was good in every sport... His friends wished him to enter the foot races at Olympia; he answered that he would be willing, if his opponents were kings..." Page 538

"...He (Alexander) broke down the barriers between Greek and 'barbarian' and prepared for the cosmopolitanism of the Hellenistic age; he opened Hither Asia to Greek colonization, and established Greek settlements as far as Bactria;...He broke Greek literature, philosophy, and art to Asia..." Page 552

"Except the blind forces of nature, nothing moves in this world which is not Greek in its origin." Sir Henry Maine Page 667

2. ALEXANDER OF MACEDON 356-323 B.C. A HISTORICAL BIOGRAPHY by Peter Green published by UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA PRESS

"...The men of Lower Macedonia worshipped Greek gods; the royal family claimed descent from Heracles...The Molosian dynasty of Epirus, on the marches of Orestis and Elimiotis, claimed descent from Achilles, through his grandson Pyrrhus - a fact destined to have immeasurable influence on the young Alexander, whose mother Olympias was of Molossian stock..." Page 5

"...He (Alexander 1st) worked hard to get Macedonia accepted as a member of the Hellenic family (mainly by establishing a fictitious link between the Argead dynasty and Argos), and encouraged Greeks to domicile themselves on Macedonian soil, a policy which both Perdiccas and Archelaus followed..." Page 8-9

"...In particular with the grim struggle for the succession still fresh in their minds, they urged - very reasonably - that before leaving Macedonia he should marry and beget an heir. However, the king rejected this motion out of hand, a decision which was to cause untold bloodshed and political chaos after his death. It would be shameful, he told them, for the captain - general of the Hellenes, with Philip's invincible army at his command, to idle his time away on matrimonial dalliance..." Page 152

3. THE NATURE OF ALEXANDER by Mary Renault, published by GEORGE RAINBIRD LIMITED

"...Philip, on campaign in Thrace, got the news along with two other messages. His general, Parmenion, had soundly defeated the Illyrians in the west; and his racehorse had won at the Olympic Games. The right of Olympic entry was a prized inheritance of the kings of Macedon. The Games were only open to Greeks; and Macedonians were not recognized in the south as the offshoots of the original stock which in fact they were. They were regarded as semi-barbarous (the actual term 'barbarian' was reserved for Persians) and the royal house had just scraped in on the strength of a remote Argive ancestry. For Philip, to whom acceptance in the Greek world was a lifelong dream, this news may have been the most welcome item of the three..." Page 28-29

"...The wedding plans were resplendent. High ranking guests and state envoys were invited from all over Greece, as befitted Philip's of pan Hellenic war leader. Festival games in honour of the twelve Olympian gods were to be dedicated at a ceremony in the theatre at Aegae, near modern Edessa, the ancient capital……" Page 61

4. HISTORY OF THE WORLD by J.M. ROBERTS, published by OXFORD UNIVERSITY PRESS 1993

"The history of Greece rapidly becomes less interesting after the fifth century. It is also less important. What remains important is the history of Greek civilization and the shape of this, paradoxically, was determined by a kingdom in northern Greece which some said was not Greek at all: Macedon. In the second half of the fourth century it created an empire bigger than any yet seen, the legatee of both Persia and the city-states. It organized the world we call Hellenistic because of the preponderance and uniting force within it of a culture. Greek in inspiration and language. Yet Macedon was a barbarous place, perhaps centuries behind Athens in the quality of its life and culture...Whether this was a state which was a part of the world of Hellenes was disputed; some Greeks thought Macedonians barbarians, though their kings claimed descent from Greek houses (one going back to Heracles) and their claim was generally recognized. Philip himself sought status; he wanted Macedon to be thought of as Greek. When he became regent of Macedon in 359 BC he began a steady acquisition of territory at the expense of other Greek states..." Page 168

"...Alexander was a creative mind, but self-absorbed, obsessed with his pursuit of glory, and something of a visionary. With great intelligence he combined almost reckless courage; he believed his mother's ancestor to be Homer's Achilles and strove to emulate the hero. He was ambitious as much to prove himself in men's eyes - or perhaps those of his forceful and repellent mother - as to win new lands. The idea of Hellenic crusade against Persia undoubtedly had reality for him, but he was also, for all his admiration of the Greek culture of which he had learnt from his tutor Aristotle, too egocentric to be a missionary, and his cosmopolitanism was grounded in an appreciation of realities..." Page 171

5. ALEXANDER THE GREAT by Frank Lipsius, published by SATURDAY REVIEW PRESS, NEW YORK

"The immediate goal of the journey "Alexander's expedition" was to liberate the Greek cities of Asia Minor from Persian rule. The Pan-Hellenic nature of the enterprise was emphasized by the inclusion of Thracian javelin throwers, one thousand Agrianians (whom Alexander particularly valued and kept close to him), fifteen hundred Thessalians and five hundred Cretan archers. The Macedonian troops, the core of the army, numbered twelve thousand infantry and eighteen hundred cavalry. The resolution to avenge Xerxes' conquest of the Greeks one hundred and fifty years before had been Philip's reason for marshalling troops for the expedition..."

All the above books refer to the Macedonians as Hellenes. They do the same thing with Athenians, Spartans, Thessalians, Corinthians, Thebeans, etc.

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Illyrius
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Posts: 42
(10/14/03 5:08 am)
Reply Re: Historical Evidence of the Greekness of Macedonia!!!
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What were the borders of ancient Macedonia?

Thucydides (II 99) defined ancient Macedonia as the area extending to the east as far as the lands of mountain Paggaion, east of river Strymon, to the south to the Thermaikos Bay, Chalcidice, river Pineios (the border with Thessaly) and the Kambounia mountains, to the north up to (including) the city of Pella, south of the lands of Paeonians, and to the west to the mountains (Pindos, Tymfe etc) that separate Macedonia from Epeiros and ancient Illyria (today's Albania).Macedonia, as defined by Thucydides, coincides with the region of Macedonia of modern Greece minus some lands of the Chalcidice prefecture.In later dates the borders of the Macedonian State (that is, the lands ruled by the Macedonian Kings) varied and depending on the circumstances it extended westwards up to the Adriatic Sea, eastwards up to river Evros and beyond, and to the north up to the city of Lychnidon between the lakes of Brygies and Lyhnetis [the translation of some Greek names into English may seem weird. [Blame me for this.]. References pointing to the borders of the Macedonian state can be found in Strabo, VII.The terms Macedonia and Macedonian State may seem analogous to the terms Great Britain and British Empire.

When did the first hellenic tribes reside in the area later called by them Macedonia?

The first hellenic tribes of Dorians and Achaeoi resided in Macedonia in prehistoric times, first in Emathia near mountain Vermion and later expanded northwards and eastwards to cover the lands outlined in Question 1. Herodotos mentioned that around the 9th century BC the Macedonian State had the city of Aegae as its capital and that either Caranos or Perdikkas was considered the founder of the Macedonian dynasty.[ Note: The ancient royal city of Aegae is located in modern day Vergine in the Emathia prefecture of Greece. Excavations which began in 1976 by the late Professor Manolis Andronikos revealed that the site of the city was indeed located near Vergina and not near Edessa as many archaeologists, Professor Andronikos included, previously believed. It was Professor N. G. L. Hammond who in 1968 first suggested that Vergina was the place to look for Aegae, a belief peculiar even to himself at that time.

The first royal tombs in Vergina were excavated in 1976-1977 and one of them is believed to belong to Philippos II, father of Alexander the Great. ]According to Herodotos, the Makednoi (Macedonians) who crossed Doris and moved to Peloponnesos were later called Dorians. Since the term Dorians is much more well known than the term Makednoi we shall also use it to identify the latter people in the discussion to follow.The Dorians who formed the Macedonian state came in contact with the local Pelasgic population whose size was much smaller than the one residing at the sea shores and the islands of Southern Greece. It is for this reason that German Historian K. Belloch considered the Macedonians the purest Greeks of any other part of Greece (Gr. Geschichte, I, 1a, p92). The Dorians(Makednoi) of Macedonia were larger in number than those who moved southwards. This is because those who moved southwards were reduced in number either due to attrition or to settlements in the areas they visited along their movement to Southern Greece. Such a place of permanent residence for some Makednoi(Dorians) was Doris. When these Dorians (known until then as Makednoi only) moved to Peloponnesos they became known there as Dorians (that is, the people [coming] from Doris).

What is the meaning of the word 'Macedon'? References.

The word Macedon (Gk: Makedvn) is very likely to come from the greek word 'makednos' first mentioned in Homer's Odyssey (Od. H106), and later by Herodotos, who called 'Makednon eunos' the various Doric tribes among which he included the Macedonians (Her. I.56, VIII.43).The word 'Makednos' has the meaning of long, tall, and highlander. Some archaeologists believe that the Macedonians were called so because they were tall. Nowadays the meaning of 'highlander' is more prevalent. This is because Macedonians used to live early in prehistoric times in the mountains of Vermio in Greece.The greek words Macetia (Gk: MAKETIA) and Macetae (Gk: MAKETAI) were also used in early times to identify Macedonia and the Macedonians. The biblic Hettieim or Kitim and Kitiaioi originate from Maketia and Maketai.Hesiod in Theogonia, written in the middles of 8th century BC, claimed that Makednos and Magnes who used to live in the lands around mountain Olympos and Pieria were sons of Zeus and Thyias, daughter of Deukalion. This suggests that the other Greeks of the time believed that the Macedonians and Magnetes belonged to the same tribe (a hellenic one).Hellanikos, who lived at the time of Herodotos, considered Macedon son of Aeolos. Apollodoros considered Macedon son of Lykaon and thus grandson of the king of Argos Pelasgos and Lykaon king of Arcadians whose 50 sons became leaders of various greek tribes. On the other hand Aelianos considered Lykaon, King of Emathia and Pindos, son of Macedon.Aeschylus, in Iketidai, had the king of Argos Pelasgos boasting that his family was ruling the lands beyond Pindos and Dodoni up to river Strymon (that is including Macedonia, the one part of modern day Greece).

The Macedonian state until the end of the 6th century BC.

The Macedonians until the 6th century BC lived isolated from the other Greeks a pastoral life known as transhumant pastoralism moving their herds to the mountain pastures in the spring and to the lowland pastures in the winter (see N. G. L. Hammond). Their language was affected by the way of their life and was not as linguistically developed as that of Athens. Macedonians built their houses on hilltop and well-protected areas and retained the lifestyle of the original Dorians possibly emphasized by the need of intermittent wars needed to preserve their own existence.A German historian and linguist, O. Hoffmann, considered Macedonians a greek tribe that first lived in the mountains of Pindos then moved towards the lands of river Haliakmon and in some unknown time towards the valley of river Axios.The first contact between the Macedonians and other Greeks (those of Chalcidice) occurred at the end of the 6th century BC when Amyntas I, father of Alexander I, conquered Anthemounta in Chalcidice. This contact terminates the isolationism of the Macedonian State and signifies a new era of participation in the events taking place in the hellenic world by forging alliances with various city-states, becoming an enemy of other ones, and switching sides, as fit to the interests of the State.There are some people who advocate the thesis that the Macedonians were not Greek. An English archaeologist, St. Casson, observed that it was difficult to give a definition of what could be considered 'hellenic'. If one, according to him, included in such a definition everything found north or south of the Korinthos bay (in Peloponnesos, Southern Greece) between the 10th and 8th century BC, then Macedonia should be considered greek.

The people, according to Casson, living in Macedonia were using the same jewels with those living in Sparta, Olympia, Delphoi, Aegina, and Argos. This at least proves the close relations of the people living in these areas in the first centuries of the 1st millenium BC.The recent excavations in Vergina confirm the conclusions of Casson for the remaining centuries.

What were the relations of Macedonia with the other two Greek Kingdoms of Thessaly and Epeiros?

Epeiros, Macedonia and Thessaly were all inhabited by Greek tribes. Epeiros, Macedonia and Thessaly had more in common than any other Greek state. All three were kingdoms [monarchies], a form of government highly disliked by the Greeks in the South [Sparta being a sole exception had two kings]. For Epeiros and Macedonia monarchy was the result of the pastoral life which forced people to live in areas surrounded by mountains and be isolated from the other Greeks.Despite references by Thucydides that the Epeirotians were not Greek, excavations in Epeiros in the 1950s proved such claims of Thucydides to be totally untrue, since it can now be proved that Molossians, Athamanians, Chaones and Thesprotians and other people living in Epeiros [known collectively as Epeirotians] were Greek, speaking Greek and writing in Greek throughout the lifetime of Thucydides and even before that according to the archaeological evidence found so far.Ancient Greeks (Iliad P.234) believed that Dodoni in Epeiros was the center of the Hellenic world and that the names Hellas and Hellenes were first given to the people of Epeiros also called Graecoi, the root of the English word 'Greek'. For more details we refer to Aristotle's Meteorologica 352a, 34.Macedonians were in close contacts with both the Thessalians and the Epeirotians. Marriages among the members of the royal families of the three kingdoms were common. Olympias, mother of Alexander the Great, was a Molossian princess. Molossians believed that the founder of their tribe was Neoptolemos son of homeric Achilles. Macedonians and Epeirotians were many times allies in wars against their common enemy, the Illyrians. Diodoros (XV 13) mentioned that in a single battle following an Illyrian invasion of Macedonia 15,000 Epeirotians were killed, a quite high number, by the Greek standards of that time.

What were the relations between the Macedonians and the Illyrians?

The Illyrians were Indoeuropeans and used to live in nowadays Albania and the western-northwestern part of the Republic of Skopje. They were not a greek tribe. Nowadays Albanians can be considered descendants of the ancient Illyrians although many other people lived in Illyria in various times (such as Greeks, Latins, Germans, Slavs, and Turks). The modern albanian language seems to have greek elements but these elements were most probably introduced in the older illyrian language during the hellenistic and roman periods and later, in the byzantine times, when Illyrians appeared to be speaking Greek.Various authors have supported the thesis that Illyrians and Macedonians belonged to the same (non-greek) tribe and spoke the same (non-greek) language. Given that it has been proved beyond any reasonable doubt (see following questions) that the language spoken by ancient Macedonians was a greek dialect such claims are not true. An ancient writer Polyvios (XXVII 8,9) wrote that Macedonians were using translators in their contacts with the Illyrians, which implies that they were not speaking the same language.Illyrians used to live up to the hellenistic and roman years a primitive life raiding neighboring areas. Raids by Illyrians, whenever they were able to cross the mountain passes, in Macedonia and Epeiros were frequent [See also Question 5]. In the early 4th century BC, when the succession to the Macedonian throne was problematic Illyrians invaded Macedonia and occupied most of the lands of the Macedonian State. They were driven out of the State only with the combined efforts of Macedonians, Epeirotians, Thessalians and the settlers of Chalcidici.

What was the Macedonian form of government?

It was mentioned in a previous question that the Macedonian State was a kingdom. The form of government reminded that found in Iliad and Odyssey. The rule of the Macedonian king was not absolute and his 'hetairoi', as the Macedonian soldiers were called, were consulting the king sometimes quite vociferously. It was not uncommon even for Alexander the Great to have to convince his Macedonian soldiers for his future actions and to request their approval. The institution of 'hetairoi' had its roots in Homer (Iliad D 204, 532, E 663, Z 170,260) where the Myrmidon soldiers of Achilles were called so.

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Illyrius
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Posts: 45
(10/14/03 6:05 am)
Reply Re: Historical Evidence of the Greekness of Macedonia!!!
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Did Demosthenes believe the Macedonians were barbarians?

No. Proponents of the thesis that Macedonians spoke a non-greek language accept (usually...) that the Macedonian kings were Greeks but were ruling non-Greek people. Given the evidence that has been found in the past years from archaeological excavations they have started claiming that the kings and the upper-class had been Greek-speakers but the lower class was not.Now to explain the "NO". One may claim that it should have been a "YES" and they would point to the "To Philippos" speech of the orator where he claimed that from these barbarian Macedonians one could not even buy slaves. I will let Professor A. Holm in his work "The history of Greece from its commencement to the close of the independence of the Greek nation", translated from German, London New York, Macmillan, 1894-1898, Volume III, page 206 to
explain this passage from the speech of Demosthenes:

"That the Greeks did not consider the Macedonians as barbarians is proved involuntarily by Demosthenes (To Philippos 3, 31) where he states that "OYD ANDRAPODON SPOYDAION HN PROTEROY" from Macedonia, which stripped of its rhetoric means the Macedonians did not provide the Greeks with slaves, the meaning of which of course was that the Macedonians were not considered barbarians, like the Thracians, Phrygians..."

Given this, the discussion below seems to be redundant. Demosthenes, an Athenian orator and politician in various speeches of his and most notably in Olynthiakos G' and later, when it was very clear to him that the power of Athens was fading away and Macedonia was the new power in the hellenic world, accused Philippos II of many things including that of being barbarian. This is not surprising for Demosthenes who spent his whole life advocating the superiority of Athens over the other hellenic states, even if that required that some Greek city states were to be destroyed or to suffer for Athens to remain the leader of Greece [See, For the Megalopolitans,5].

In his Third Olynthiakos, 16, Dmeosthenes wrote "Is he (Philippos) not our enemy? Are not our possessions in his hands? Is he not a barbarian? Is he not anything that you choose to call him? In God's name, when we have let everything go, when we have all but put everything into his hands, shall we then inquire at large who is responsible for it all?" There are no explicit accusations of Macedonians as a whole of being so (barbarians). Given that such an assertion against Philippos is shared by noone and given so many references in antiquity to his descent [Herodotos, Thucydides, Isocrates, Hesiodos, Hellanikos] in various texts any other discussion on this question seems pointless. In one translation of this speech by John Edwin Santys in "The first Philippic and the Olynthiacs of Demosthenes", Macmillan and Co, the translator commented on this passage Argos [Herodotos VIII 137, IX 45, Thucydides II 99,2, V 80,2] and one of Philip's ancestors, Alexander A', had as a Greek been allowed to compete at the Olympic games [Herodotos V 22].

Demosthenes, however, in his hatred of Philip, never acknowledges his Greek descent. ... of breath as he gasps out this final and comprehensive phrase of vituperation. In such a spasmodic utterance no one need be surprised either at the presence of hiatus or at the concurrence of several short syllables". Those who believe that this phrase of Demosthenes is not a term of abuse but truth are those who believe that President-elect Clinton is indeed 'Bozo' as Presint Bush claimed, which I doubt that even President Bush believes.There is also another reason that this accusation against Philippos on behalf of Demosthenes was more of a figure of speech than anything else.Demosthenes's mother (or his maternal grandmother) was a Skythian, a non-Greek anf thus a non-Athenian. Had his accusation been taken seriously we could have been accused and for a good reason of being a barbarian himself.In fact Aeschines (On the Embassy, 78) expressed this opinion by saying

".... KAI TAYTA, V DHMOSUENES, EK TVN NOMADVN SKYUVN TO PROS MHTROS VN GENOS", that is, "you, Demosthenes, a descendant through your mother of the nomad Skythians" as well as (Against Ctesiphon, 172) "TA D' APO THS MHTROS [DHMOSUENHS] SKYUHS, BAR- BAROS, ELLHNIZVN TH FVNH" that is, "and by his mother's side [Demosthenes is] a Scythian, a Greek speaking Barbarian", and earlier in that passage Aeschines accused Demothenes of being a
slanderer "EJ' HS YMIN O PERIERGOS KAI SYKOFANTHS [DEMOSTHENES] GEGENHTAI". [Some authors believe that Kleovouli, mother of Demosthenes, was daughter of Gylon who settled in Crimaea and married a Scythian woman.]Let alone the fact that Demosthenes, an 'honorable' Athenian citizen, was bribed later by the Persians (barbarians) to write speeches against Philippos and at the same time was also accusing Philippos of bribing Athenians and various Athenians of being bribed by Philippos.

Demosthenes would also look very silly since another Athenian, Isocrates, in, To Philippos,108 wrote considered Philippos an Hellen and urged him to unite all Hellenes and lead them in a war against the Barbarians.In one of his speeches, On the Embassy 305, Demosthenes in his effort to accuse orator Aeschines of inconsistent and possibly traitorous behavior accused Aeschines of calling Philippos 'barbarian' and 'devil'. In his Third Philippic, 31, Demosthenes accused Philippos of being "he is a pestilent Macedonian, from whose country it used not to be possible to buy even a slave of any value" [There were no slave in the Macedonian state as opposed to other greek city-states]. On the other hand in the Third Olynthiac Demosthenes commended the Athenians on extracting 10,000 talents from Macedonia and bringing them into the Acropolis many years earlier, in the fifth century BC.Accusations by Aeschines on the past and present behavior of Demosthenes such as of inflicting wounds on himself and bringing suit for malicious assault, (in Against Ctesiphon, 212), of
becoming a teacher in order to extract large amounts of money from his pupils (in Against Timarchus, 171), of taking money from his clients for writing speeches to be delivered in court and then revealing the contents of these speeches to their opponents (in On the Embassy, 165), of belittling young Alexander by claiming that he would prove incompetent and would never stir out of Macedonia (Against Ctesiphon 160), of later seeking favor from Alexander (same,162), of his insincerity and cowardice (against Ctesiphon 150-152), are omitted.The following remark made by an ancient writer commenting on Demosthenes's accusation of Philippos (Olynthiakos G' 16) being a barbarian highlights the beliefs of all other Greeks as well as the real beliefs of Demosthenes: "YBRISAI TOYTON (meaning FILIPPON DEMOSUENHS) BOYLOMENOS KALEIN BARBARON, EPEI <EI> TO ALHUES SKOPHSEI, EYRHSEI AYTON ELLHNAN ARGEION KAI APO HRAKLEOYS TO GENOS KATAGOMENON, VS PANTES OI ISTORIKOI MARTYROYSIN...". In short the accusation on behalf of Demosthenes was just a slander since every historian at that time knew that Philippos was Greek in descent.

Is there any reference by Demosthenes to an incident that can lead us to conclude that he and his fellow Athenians believed that Macedonians indeed spoke a greek dialect?

Yes. Demosthenes in a speech of his (in Greek: PERI THS PARAPRESBEIAS[On the Embassy?] 197,229) described an incident in which Frynonas, an Athenian, while traveling to Olympia had his luggage taken by Macedonian soldiers. Frynonas acted later as an Athenian ambassador to Philippos II. Philippos II ordered his soldiers to return the taken property to Frynonans and apologized for his soldiers not knowing that that time was a period of religious festivities. Had the Macedonian soldiers not spoken a greek dialect Philippos II would have used that as an excuse, Demosthenes would have been very keen to pointing this out in his speech, and taken up with great delight, as we may guess, the opportunity to accuse not only Philippos but also his soldiers of barbarian behavior. Nevertheless, he didn't do that because he knew that the Macedonians spoke a greek dialect.No lack of understanding between the Macedonians and the Athenians at that time (at the time that the alleged "hellenization" of Macedonians was about to begin) has been reported in any ancient text. Demosthenes, as an ambassador of Athens visited Macedonia twice. This happened before his now famous (or infamous) speeches against Philippos. During his two visits and afterwards never
complained of Macedonians being "barbarians", or speaking a nongreek language. On the contrary we was dazzled by the riches of the palace of Philippos in Pella.

Is it possible [ignoring historic evidence that shows that this was not the case] that Macedonians had spoken a non-greek language before 340BC and within a 10-20 year period every Macedonian was fluent in the attic dialect?

The answer is no, unless one sites as an example the races in Star Trek: The Next Generation (Trademark by Paramount Pictures) who are all fluent in English no matter how alien or young or French for that matter are:-)Arrhianos presented many instances of Alexander the Great talking to his fellow Macedonian soldiers in greek(attic) and not say, in their supposedly non-greek mother tongue. Wouldn't his sol- diers feel more comfortable in their mother tongue (a supposedly non greek one)?

Who may have 'hellenized' ancient Macedonians, if we we assume, despite proof for the contrary, that they were not a greek tribe ?

This is a question that noone could give an answer. Assuming that ancient Macedonians were not speaking Greek the large number of doric and thus non-attic words found in their spoken language, let alone place-names, month-names, attributes to Gods and Godesses, festival names etc seem to zero the probability that Athenians were the ones who hellenized them. The large number of archaic greek words not used by other Greeks of that time preclude any other greek city-state or kingdom of the classic times to be responsible for that alleged 'hellenization'. Remembering the not so friendly relations between the Macedonians and the Athenians, the vastness of the Macedonian kingdom as opposed to that of the city state of Athens, and its population -Macedonians were able to form sizeable armies, by Greek standards- it is highly unlikely that any other Greek state or Athens could have undertaken such an enormous task and had it completed in a 10-20 year period.On the other hand, Alexander A' when he initiated his otherwise brief contacts with the Greeks in the South he was able to talk to them in Greek fluently. If Macedonians were to be hellenised in the 4th century BC there would have been no way for Alexander A' to speak greek. If he and his family were the only Greek speakers in Macedonia it would have been highly unlikely that he and his family had retained the ability to speak Greek fluently.One of the tragedies Euripides first presented in Macedonia was Ihpigeneia in Aulis and Ekavi. In Iphigeneia (1400) and Ekavi (1199) "OYPOT' AN FILON / TO BARBARON GENOIT' AN ELLHSIN GENOS /
OYD AN DYNAITO", the greek superiority over the Barbarians was highlighted. It would have been be too dangerous for him to express such opinions to a non-greek audience (if Macedonians were not Greek and spoke a non-Greek language). Let alone the fact that the language of his tragedies was Greek.

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Illyrius
Registered User
Posts: 46
(10/14/03 6:12 am)
Reply Re: Historical Evidence of the Greekness of Macedonia!!!
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ORIGIN OF THE MACEDONIANS

INTRODUCTION

Many writers investigated the origin of the Macedonians in their own way and have, as a result, arrived at different conclusions, often in conflict with one another.' This subject is of vital significance to us, Macedonians, for we want to know whether or not our ancestors were Greek. Much more so, because aligned with it, is another question of equal importance, namely, whether Greece has any inheritance rights upon Macedonia, or whether, in the absence of such historical or ethnological rights, Macedonia can be considered a property without an owner where anybody can stake his claim.

The Greek origin of the Macedonians or rather the homogeneity of the Greeks and the Macedonians are proven by the history of the settlement of the Indo- Europeans in Europe, particularly the South Group, i. e. the Thracians, the Greeks and the Illyrians, in the Balkan Peninsula.

THE FIRST SETTLERS

The Thracians, having arrived first, occupied the eastern part of the peninsula and Macedonia.

The Greeks probably came after the Thracians, about 2500 B. C., making their way through the valleys of Axios, the Morava (Margos) and the mountainous passes of Illyria. They stopped at the Western part of the Balkan peninsula and Macedonia, which was seized from the Thracians.

This land has been their station and was Arian-Greek for many centuries before Southern Greece became Greek. Further movements to the south were obstructed by the chain of the Kambounian mountains and Olympus. It was then that they built in Amphaxitis' and further south, the cities of Eidomene, Europus, Atalante, Gortynia, Ichnae, Dion.

About five centuries later the Thracians regained Central Macedonia as a result of which some Greek tribes, such as the Ionians and Achaeans occupying the afore- mentioned cities, were forced to submit but retained the names of their native towns, while others moved south- ward and built new cities by the same names in various parts, especially in Arcadia, where, according to Strabo only Achaeans settled (Gortys-Gortynia, Europus, Eidomene, Atalante). Others, such as the Penestae of northern Macedonia who spoke an archaic dialect, settled in Thessaly, having left behind them the name of the old country Penestia in its original seat.

THE APPEARANCE OF THE ILLYRIANS

In the 13th century B. C. the Illyrians penetrated the westernmost parts of the Balkan peninsula. They occupied Penestia and the territory up to the Genousos River, as shown by the folklore, before, during and after Strabo, up to this very day. According to an ancient tradition, the town of Pylon, near lake Lychnitis (Achris or Ochrida), formed the meeting point of the boundaries of Macedonia and Illyria. This territory has also been known under the name of Dassaretia, and constituted the outermost limit of Macedonia and Epirus ("Finis Macedonia et Epiri", Itiner.Hierosol.) at least during the Greco-Roman period.' The Illyrian incursion and pressure forced out many Eordian's from the plain of the Eordian River ( (Devole) who settled in another plain near the lake of the ancient Arnissa (Ostrovo) in Western Macedonia. This territory was known thereafter as Eordia or Eordaea (in an old inscription discovered in Epidaurus another form of the name is given: Euordia) which was derived from the Eordians.

MACEDONIANS (DORIANS) MIGRATE ALL OVER GREECE

The latter in turn pushed out the Macedonian tribe of the Dorians (whom Kretchmer identifies with the Douriopes of Macedonia) and forced them to leave the country around the mountains of Olympus and Pindus (Herodotus, Pindar, Strabo) and settled in the land to the south of the Kambounian mountains as well as to the south of the Isthmus of Corinth. They (the Dorians) were followed by other tribes of the so-called north- western type and were scattered all over Greece, except Arcadia.

From such new settlers certain localities derived and retained up to this day their historical names, i. e. Boeotia, Phocis Acarnania, Thessaly, etc. The Boeotians themselves must have come down from the western Macedonian mountain Boion, from which their name is derived. But they were not alien to the extension of the Boion mountain further south, that is Pindus, from which Pindar's name is derived.

ESTABLISHMENT OF THE CENTRAL MACEDONIAN THRONE

Those who remained in Macedonia settled in small villages and, divided according to areas in independent Kingdoms, were engaged in constant warfare with their neighbors, the Illyrians, whom they kept in check. Between 700-500 B. C. the dynasty of Orestis (the territory sow covered by Kastoria and Korytsa) appeared and established the central Macedonian throne in Aegae (Vergina) of Emathia after subduing the local kings of the other Macedonian territories of Pelagonia (Monastir), Lyngus (Florina), Douriopia (Krousovo-Perlepes), Elimia (Kozane- Grevena), Tymphaea (Konitsa), Eordia (Ptolemais), Pieria ( Katerini-Litochoron ) and Bottiaea (Giannitsa- Pella).

The town of Aegae (in Central Macedonia) was the seat of the King of the entire Macedonia who ruled over the already subdued small kingdoms. These, according to Thucydides, "were allies and subjects, but also had kings of their own". That is, to put it in another way, they were federative units, having approximately the same relation with the central government as the small states of Germany had with the King of Prussia before the first World War (1914-18).

EXPANSION OF THE KINGDOM OF MACEDONIA

Following the repulse of the Persians, King Alexander I, occupied the entire territory between the rivers Axios and Strymon, with the exception of the coastline. Philip II, father of Alexander the Great, extended his dominion eastward to the shores of Euxine. He imposed his political influence even beyond Kaemus (the Balkan Mountains) as far as the Danube River, after having traversed all the land beyond the river Axios from the south to north as well as from east to west: that is from Scythia Minor (Dobrudja),where, according to Atheneus, he married Meda or Medope, the daughter of Kothela, King of Odessa (Varna).

Along the coastline of the Aegean, the Propontis and the Euxinus already existed colonies founded by Greeks from Southern Greece since the 8th century B. C. But Philip founded other colonies inland of which we know only Philippi, Kabyle and Philippopolis. These were the bases for a methodical intercourse with, and hellenization of the Thracians in the interior. '4' But Philip's colonies must have been many more, for Philippopolis alone in the center of Thrace, without any other support (that is, a series of similar colonies), would not have been able to remain Greek in character together with her suburbs up to the recent exchanges of populations.'5' In the nearby tombs jewels of genuine Greek workmanship were discovered testifying to the presence not merely of transient merchants, but of Greek colonists as well, who penetrated and settled in the interior as an extension of the Greek colonies founded along the coastline in the 8th century B. C. and afterwards.

DISSEMINATION OF GREEK CULTURE

It was through the presence of such settlers that the taste and pursuit of works of classical Greek art has already been imparted in the 5th century B. C., which coincides with the beginning of coinage in the Greek colonies along the coastline. The presence of such abundant works of Greek art in the interior can not be explained only by the existence of the Greek coastal colonies.

Similar colonies also existed along the coast of Dacia, but the interior did not assume a Greek character by the presence of any such Greek works in large numbers. There is, from this point of view, a similarity between northern Thrace and the peninsula of Taurus. This peninsula, however, has been almost purely Greek with Iphigenia in Tauris and Prometheus in Caucasus. All in all, the Greek nation has, at least from the time: of Philip, been the master not only of the coastline, but of the interior of Thrace as well. With the exception of the Romans and the Turks, no other Balkan people has seized the coast, but only occasionally and in such a manner as travelers are accommodated for s night in hotels.(6)

CONSOLIDATION OF THE STATE OF MACEDONIA

Throughout this period and until the days of the Byzantine Empire, no other people has ever invaded Macedonia to displace the Arian-Greeks. Nor have Greek colonists come from Southern Greece. Had they tried to, they would have been unable to fill up a vast land, such as Western Macedonia. Poor and thin-soiled, it was not suitable for colonization. Besides, in Southern Greece, which was cut up into city-states, no Power could have been found strong enough, to conceive the idea, and have the necessary means, in order to colonize the whole of the interior of a distant country, which would have meant the displacement of the native population. In such case it would have been necessary to determine the racial character of the population and explain its presence there, had it not been originally Greek.

Legends, such as those about immigration of Kings and other settlers from Southern Greece to Macedonia (Temenides, Bacchiadae, Kadmeians) were invented by the Greeks precisely to explain the Greek character of the Macedonians. All this is due to the fact that the ancient Greeks could not understand this in any other way, since they did not know their own origin and the route their ancestors followed in coming into Macedonia and Greece.

THE MACEDONIANS CLUNG TO THEIR OLD TRADITIONS

This being the case, the inhabitants of Macedonia are descendants of the old Arian (Greek) settlers. Prehistorical data are very clear on this point. Since the dawn of history, the names of the people and the places in 'Macedonia are Greek (Karanos, Perdiccas, Amyntas, Aeropus, Alcetas, Kleitos, Emathia, Eidomene, Haliacmon, Echedorus, Dion, etc). In addition, there is a tradition that the Greek dialect of the Macedonians preserved, and rightly so, the old peculiarities of the Homeric times, retaining the nominative cases of the first declension without "s", as is the case with the Thessalian and the Boeotian dialects, such as ippota, mhtieta, nepheligereta, olympionica, etc. This very thing is also denoted by the name Ptolemaios (Homeric Ptolemos), while the southerners were saying later polemos-Polemon. It is not improper to mention here that the bodyguards of the kings of Macedonia were called "etairoi" of the King, that is, fellow-warriors and companions, as in the time of Homer.

Thus, the Macedonian dialect was preserved in an undeveloped and archaic state, as was the case with their entire civilization, but it was Greek. It follows, therefore, that the people, too, were rude and backward, but they were Greeks, appearing as such during the time of Philip and Alexander and even later, when the light of civilization was shining on in their own land. The Greeks moved to Peloponnesos from what is called "Sterea Hellas" Central or Middle Greece. The latter, however, was not wholly evacuated as a result of this southward movement, The same holds true as to Thessaly, whose population or rather a part of it, moved to Middle Greece. Another example: Greeks from all over Greece had left their original hometowns and settled in colonies outside Greece. The latter, however, has never been evacuated altogether by its Greek inhabitants. Thus Macedonia, too, sent out her surplus population without ceasing to be a country of Greeks.

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Aristotelis
Registered User
Posts: 15
(10/25/03 1:32 pm)
Reply excellent
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Very good reading.

There are many home truths. The other factor I must stress (being I am also Macedonian, but Hellenic - but despise the petty Slavic lies).

The fact remains that there is no civilization apart from Hellenic culture if Macedonia; even in the Skopje Museum, the inscriptions of ancient exhibits are in Greek.

The Yugoslav "Republic of Macedonia" was emphatically created by Tito by taking Serbian terriroty he strengthened Croatiua, to which he also gave Dalmatia.

The dream of the Skopians is access to the Agean, this is why, even though they are nationalist, they had the support of Stalin, based on the greater Slavic dream.

The Skopian idiom is not a language, but an artificial construct based on the Bulgarian regional dialect, this is why Serbs called anyone who spoke it BULGARI.

Ultimately, the rise of nationalism in the Balkans impose the principle: One state for each people. In order to find a robust solution to the problem, we must first distinguish between cultural geographical and political dimensions for the concept of "Macedonia".

From a cultural point of view, only the Greeks of Macedonia have the right to call themselves "Macedonians" and they do!!!

Conclusion is that only on a political level is it possible to find a solution, as political compromise, goodwill, RESPECT, peaceful friendliness between Greece and Skopje.

Greece is a peaceful country and seeks to co-operate with all its neighbours on the basis of historical truth and mutual respect. The common goal of all people of the Balkans must be progress co-operation and stability.

But without respect of the truth, we will head back to the dark ages faster than you can skin a rabbit.

--Aristotelis

Here are a few quotes for students of history and culture:

#"Aetolians, Acarnanians, Macedonians man of the same language..." (Titus livius,XXXI,29,15)


#"Since they speak the same language, they should end their fights by messengers or heralds..."(Herodotus,Histories,7-9-2-)


#This is a sworn treaty between Myrkan...and in the presence of all the gods that posses Macedonia and the rest of Greece, and in the presence of the gods of the army who preside this oath. Thus said Hannibal and ...That king Phillip and the Macedonians and the rest of the Hellenes Greeks)..." (Polybius 7.9.1.-7)


#"How highly should we honour the Macedonians, who for the greater part of their lives never cease from fighting with the barbarians for the sake and security of Hellas ???For who is not aware that Hellas would have constantly stood in the greatest danger ,had not been defended by the Macedonians and the ambition of their kings? (Polybius IX,35,2)

#"...For me each good foreigner is a Greek, and each bad Greek a barbarian ..." (Arian)


"...Men of Athens had i not greatly in my the COMMON welfare of HELLAS I should not have come here to tell you; but I AM MYSELF A GREEK BY DESCENT and I WILL NOT WILLINGLY SEE HELLAS exchange freedom for slavery...If you prosper this war forget not to do something for my freedom; Consider the risk i have taken out of ZEAL FOR THE HELLENIC CAUSE, to acquaint you with what mardonius intends and save you by being surprised by the barbarians
I am ALEXANDER OF MACEDON..."(Herodotus, the histories,9:45)



#"the country by the sea which is now called Macedonia...Alexander father of Perdikas, and his ancestors who originally were Temenidae from Argos..."(Thoukididis 99,3)



#In here there were about 3000 heavy infantry, accompanied by all the Macedonian Cavalry and the Chalkidians near one thousand strong, against an immense crowd of BARBARIANS" (Thoukididis 4.124)



#"Your ancestors invaded Macedonia and the rest of Hellas and did us great harm, though we have done them no prior injury...I have been appointed LEADER OF HELLENES...:Alexander the great" (Arian I 16,7)



#"...Alexander son of Phillip and the Hellenes..."(Arian Anabasis of Alexander II,14,4)



#...and to disseminate and shower the blessings of Hellenic justice and peace over every nation...amd that victorious Hellenes should dance again in India..."(Plutarchos, On the fortune of alexander,3332 a-b)



#"It is your priviledge, as one who have blessed with untrammeled freedom ,to consider HELLAS AS YOUR FATHERLAND, as did the founder of your race..."(Isokratis, Letter to PHILLIP 127)

Kiro Gligorov (ex- Vardar -F.Y.R.O.Macedonia 's -Prime Minister on interview) Toronto Star:
We are Slav Macedonians,. that is what we are, our ancestors came here in the 5th century ... WE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ALEXANDER AND HIS MACEDONIA...



A History of Macedonia: Malcolm Errington (Phillipps universitat, Malburg,Germany)
page 3:that Macedonians and their kings did in fact spoke Greek and bore Greek names can be regarded nowadays as certain...


Alexander's Empire: John Pentland Mahaffy (University of Dublin,UK)
page 8:...for with Alexander the stage of influence of Greek influence spread across the world


Alexander The Great: Peter Green
page 20:Macedonia as a whole was tended to remain in isolation from the rest of the Greeks...

page 24:for the first time he (Phillip) started to understand how Macedonia's OUTDATED INSTITUTIONS OF FEUDALISM an aristocratic monarchy so despised by the REST OF GREECE


Professor W. J. Woodhouse ,University of Sydney Australia 1917)
"this was in the strict sense the land where settled immigrants of Greek stock later to be called Macedonians


Professor N. G .L. Hammond ,university of Cambridge,U.K.)
"the name of Macedonians derived from Makedon ,who was grandchild of Dieukallion ,the father of all the greeks .This may infer from Hesiod's genealogy.t may be proven that Macedonians spoke Greek since Makedon ,the ancestor of Macedonians was a brother of Magnes the ancestor of Thessalians ,who spoke greek..."

Check out what Xerxes said:


I myself have had experience of these men when I marched against them by the orders of thy father; and though I went as far as Macedonia, and came but a little short of reaching Athens itself, yet not a soul ventured to come out against me to battle. (SS 2.) And yet, I am told, these very Greeks are wont to wage wars against one another in the most foolish way, through sheer perversity and doltishness.
http://classics.mit.edu/Herodotus/history.7.vii.html

Chech out this link guys:

http://www.macedonia.com/english/history/review/

[admin]

Great stuff nsimnc... i will be posting these to our site as articles and essays for reading... we can setup a library of all this information...

The idea of a library is solid.