'Alexander the Albanian' Part II - Albanians strike back

[Ptolemy]

This is in response of the new Albanian claims found on - Alexander the Great is Illyrian?.

1. 'Women Warriors (P): A History' By David E. Jones

Firstly we should note David E. Jones is a cultural anthropologist as himself says therefore he has nothing to do with history. Anyway the quote Albanians used "In the land of Illyria (present-day Albania), home of Philip's first wife Eurydice" doesnt reveal anywhere any connection between Alexander and Albanians. Its well-known except Albanians obviously Alexander's mother was Olympias, not Eurydice.

The fact that David E. Jones lacks historical knowledge is shown in the paragraph prior to the selected quote where he stats :

"The wife of Alexander the Great, queen Cratisepolis of Sicyon, fought beside her husband.."

Cratisepolis was actually wife of Alexander, son of Polysperchon, not Alexander the great.

2. "The ancient World" by Joseph Ward Swain

The selected quote "Alexander's mother, Olympias was the daughter of an Epirote chieftain ruling in what is now Albania" doesnt prove anything else than ancient Epirotes who were non-Illyrians ruled also a part of what is modern Albania. Again nothing to prove Alexander was "Albanian".


3. "Hellenic history" by By Charles Alexander Robinson, George Willis Botsford

The selected quote proves actually as it say itself "he was of Greek descent". The claim "from both parents he had some Illyrian (albanian) blood" is easily refuted as the book was published in 1948, therefore the author/s were not aware of the newest discoveries (ie Molossian decrees) that proved undoubtedly the Greek origin of Molossians (epirote)

4. Ancient Greece: A Political, Social, and Cultural History by Sarah B. Pomeroy

The selected quote points out a blanket claim about Eurydice being "Illyrian" while there is even today an ongoing discussion about the origins of Eurydice. The authority in ancient Epirote and Macedonian history NGL Hammond dismisses the "Illyrian" origin of Eurydice as ficticious. Again no evidence of the so-called Illyrian origin of Alexander.

5. The Journal of Race Development by George H. Blakeslee and G. Stanley Hall.

For starers Blakeslee wasnt related with ancient history and his personal opinion has been refuted by world's authorities in ancient Macedonian history who noone shares his beliefs.

6. Greek Leaders By Leslie White Hopkinson

Its at least Ironic for Albanians to bring as "evidence" this book where its obvious even by its title Alexander is considered a Greek Leader. However again there is no evidence associating Olympias with..albanians that at the time werent existing even in the region.

7. Albania: Eye of the Balkan Vortex By Lou Giaffo

Lou Giaffo, an Albanian himself isnt considered anything related to "unbiased neutral source" as also his desperate attempts show, therefore his input is totally worthless.

8. The Burden of the Balkans By Mary Edith Durham

Mary Edith Durham isnt related with History but she is a traveller. Her books are good only for coffee table discussions but not history. Still no credible historical source that points out an 'Albanian' origin of Alexander.

9. "Researches in the Highlands of Turkey: Including Visits to Mounts Ida, Athos, Olympus, and Pelion, to the Mirdite Albanians and Other Remote Tribes" By Henry Fanshawe Tozer

Again the Albanian nationalists bring as somewhat "evidence" of their allegations, a geographer/traveller NOT an historian. It seems the lack of finding sources among historical community brings these miserable attempts.

10. Childe Harold, ed. by H.F. Tozer

Same as above. Tozer as non-expert in history but in geography isnt considered today as a credible source.

11. Alexander the Great: the meeting of East and West in world government and brotherhood By Charles Alexander
Robinson

Same as #3.

12. "Albanian Identities: Myth and History" By Fischer

Its at least amusing albanians nationalists to quote...inside the books of Fischer the chapter of "the myths of Albanian nationality" where actually Fischer writes down the illusions of Albanian nationalists in the first quarter of the previous century.

13. "Myths and Realities in Eastern Europe" By Walter Kolarz

Walter Kolarz is another classic example of non-historian that Albanian nationalists use as somekind of credible source.

14. The Battles That Changed History By Fletcher Pratt

In reality W.W. Tarn is the only historian related to ancient history so far but still he lived and published his books in the first half of the previous century therefore hadnt got the chance to be aware of the newest archaeologic evidences (ie Vergina tombs) that changed dramatically the views over Alexander and ancient Macedonians as a whole. His ideas and theories are considered somewhat outdated.

15. Macedonia and Greece: The Struggle to Define a New Balkan Nation By John Shea

John Shea according to his own statements is considered an extremely biased pro-skopjan source, unrelated to history therefore non-credible. For more about him visit John Shea exposed

[Ptolemy]

16. Black Lamb and Grey Falcon: A Journey Through Yugoslavia By Rebecca West

Its at least comical to bring as 'evidence' the English-Irish feminist writer of fiction novels, Rebecca West. Someone must be really desperate.

17. Conquest and Empire: The Reign of Alexander the Great By Albert Brian Bosworth

At last an historian!!! The problem with the Albanian nationalists is that nowhere A. Bosworth says anything about an "Albanian" origin of Alexander. Better next time read what you bring in table.

For more about Bosworth views on Alexander and Macedonians visit
HistoryofMacedonia Blog - Bosworth

18. Alexander the Great By Lewis Vance Cummings

As previously stated there is an ongoing discussion about the origins of Eurydice of Lyncestis. Even if in any case it had any truth in it, having your grandmother an 'Illyrian' doesnt make you an Albanian. Its interesting to note though Cummings contradicts Albanian nationalistic claims and verifies Olympias was Greek.

HistoryOfMacedonia Blog - Cummings

19. The Incredible Balkans by Konrad Bercovici

Another example of non-historian that our nationalist Albanian friends attempt to give credit. Anyway we still find speculations in the text taken out of conext like "probably" "is said".

20. The Albanians: An Ethnic History from Prehistoric Times to the Present By Edwin E. Jacques

The missionary Edwin E. Jacques isnt only an historian but his utterings are in reality considered a joke into scientific community while the only people in this planet seeming to take him seriously are albanian nationalists.

More about Jacques the new idol of Albanian nationalism

21.Alexander the Great’s Art of Strategy: The Timeless Leadership Lessons of History’s Greatest Empire Builder

Someone would immediately ask what does a book about finance and business has got to do with accurate history?? The answer lies to the fact that since no credible historian supports albanian outrageous claims they could bring up even the milkman of their neighbourhood if he had a statemen supporting them.

22. Are Leaders Born Or Are They Made?: The Case of Alexander the Great By Manfred F. R. Kets de Vries

Again not an historian. Eventhough i dont see what albanians actually want to prove with this quote. Following that logic Alexander is a Greek because ancient Macedonia lies to modern Greece.


23. Macedonia: The Politics of Identity and Difference By Jane K. Cowan

Jane K. Cowan isnt an historian specialized in ancient history. Anyway the truthfullness of albanian nationalistic parties claims makes as much sense as the validity of modern Fyrom's parties claims.

24. The nations of Russia and Turkey and their destiny By Ivan Gavrilovich Golovin

Ivan Gavrilovich Golovin is ANOTHER example of non-historian our friends use without shame.

25. The History of Rome By Thomas Arnold

So? Everybody knows Olympias in an Epirote princess. Ironically Thomas Arnold is one of the few historians being used here but more ironically same with the other historians previously he doesnt share Albanian nationalist claims.

26. Greek Horizons By Helen Day Hill Miller

So????

27. The Edinburgh Review: Or Critical Journal By Sydney Smith

Sydney Smith AGAIN is a non-historian.

Conclusion:

From the 27 'sources' albanian nationalist brought only 5 of them are actually coming from historians.

From those 5, Albert Brian Bosworth says nowhere anything about 'Albanian' origins or sth like that, Lewis Vance Cummings contradicts Albanian claims and verifies Olympias was a Greek princess, Thomas Arnold says nothing about Albanians, Charles Alexander Robinson says "he was of Greek descent" but since he wrote in 1948 he couldnt have been aware of the newest discoveries (ie Molossian decrees) that proved undoubtedly the Greek origin of Molossians (epirote) and lastly Sarah B. Pomeroy is an historian who just supports the view Alexander's grandmother was probably Illyrian.

So in reality Albanians have exactly noone in the historical community to support their absurb claims Alexander was "Albanian".

[Ehetlaios]

Originally Posted by Ptolemy

"The wife of Alexander the Great, queen Cratisepolis of Sicyon, fought beside her husband.."

LOL

Compansations for being retarded!

ΔΕΝ ΞΕΡΟΥΝ ΟΙ ΑΝΘΡΩΠΟΙ ΡΕΕΕΕΕΕΕΕΕΕΕΕ

[Ptolemy]

http://history-of-macedonia.com/word...i/#comment-439

Lou Giaffo says:

January 31st, 2008 at 8:54 am e

I am Lou Giaffo, The author of “Albania: Eye Of The Balkan Vortex,” referred to in one of these comments, in which I was portrayed as biased and not neutral claiming that Alexander The Great was Albanian, since I am of Albanian descent, thus relegating my claim of Alexander The Great as part-Albanian, as being ” totally worthless.” First of all, the Albanians are the most direct descendents of the Illyrians, as evidenced primarily through language. Alexander’s mother Olympias, was Queen of Epirus, a land, which was, as any neutral historian will confirm, predomantly populated by Illyrians. Other great Albanians portrayed in my book “Albania: Eye Of The Balkan Vortex,” include Roman emperors Diocletian, Constantine The Great, Justinian, along with Mother Thersa, Kemel Mustafa (or “Ataturk,” father of modern Turkey, Albanian on his father’s’s side), to mention just a few. Just key in my last name: Giaffo to go to any of my books.

Has anyone heard before the claim "the most direct descendents"??

So Giaffo uses as primary evidence to identify a group of people, the language. Apparently following this pattern also in other groups of people, we find him contradicting himself over Alexander and Macedonians but its ok. There is no surpise, at least from my side, to witness another Albanian contradicting himself solely by his own claims.

[Drama]

You know what the best thing is??
They say we have no connections to ancient Greeks, we are Turks now... but that they have connections to ancient Illyrians ..haha.. who of us is more Turk? WHO has adopted the belief of the Turks and who has accepted all this years passed their presence.. Albanians or Greeks? ;-)

[Truth Bearer]

Albanians are totally delusional.These guys are totall extremists that really lose logic.Why should we stress about a bunch of people who never developed a written language until the late middle ages.Illyrians were a people further north and Epirus had a name and a civilisation it was GREEK.So go tell morons like Giaffo to get lost.

[HellenicPride]

Albanians are looked upon as jokes. Nobody I know takes these people seriously. They are nothing and will always be nothing. They can claim whatever they want nobody will ever believe them.

[TirAlb]

take a look at my signature.

[Truth Bearer]

At least TirAlb has some logic rather than the vitrual extremism of other Albanians....I enjoy TirAlbs contribution to the forum and at least he provides references for debate.
And yes we are tied more to the Albanians over the centuries than those Slavs.

[TirAlb]

Thanks TB,the respect is mutual!