Where are the academics hiding?

[pankration]

Originally Posted by Spartan

Reaper you are correct about what you hear.

It is only around 20% of FYROM that lays(now understand this) within the borders of Ancient Macedonia AFTER EXPANSION UNDER PHILIP.

If you talk about the original homeland of the Ancient Macedonians on the North Slopes of Mt Olympus then NONE OF FYROM LAYS WITHIN ITS BORDERS.

With no disrespect to Spartan who took the time to find this info...WHO GIVES A SHIT IF SOME OR ALL THE LAND OF ANCIENT MACEDONIA FALLS INTO PRESENT DAY FYROM? No one in their right mind would look at borders from 2000 years ago and try to draw a correlation to a modern, artificially created country. The ONLY measure that should be used to determine ownership by occupation is the time the Slavs have been there. I'd say the Greeks beat them by at least 1500 years.

[Euklid]

Guys, the academics are not hiding. Academia is separate from politics.

The issue is political and legal.

The History is there, everyone who wants to find out seriously about the Greeks and the Macedonians, he can always visit a bookstore, and read the facts.

Our problem is the Fyromian stubborness on keeping the term as their official national term.

This besides that as you all know is historically incorrect, but this is not the issue. The issue is that it has already been taken. So the juice is in the property rights.

I believe that only through this line of defense, this issue will come to a resolution.

Brussels dont want bureacrastic problems in their agenda.

[Spartan]

Pankration,

No offense taken.

You must look at it from a strategic point of view. With the world knowing, that ONLY 20% of their entire country lays within the boundaries of the Region of Macedonia(AFTER Philips expansion), helps us in our battle with the Skops. This will make them think that if only 20% of their country is within the largest extent of the region WHY SHOULD THEY BE CALLED "MACEDONIAN". This of course is in contrast to more than 50% laying within the borders of Greece.

It is all a matter of perspective.

Now you are correct when looked at from your perspective as to who has been in the region longer!

I try to get people(outsiders as well as Skops) to look at the issue through Logic, Archaeology, Linguistics and historic sources. I try to apply Logic to all of the avenues. This is one way the outside world will understand the issue better. After all, they are the ones we need to convince, not the Skops. It is the international community which will have the power to force the Skops to change their stance and show them just how ridiculous they look to the rest of the world retaining such a belief. We have seen how ours as well as Greeces strategies have worked in the past 15 years! Of course we need to keep pursuing those avenues, but at the same time we need to pursue new ones as well.

Originally Posted by pankration

With no disrespect to Spartan who took the time to find this info...WHO GIVES A SHIT IF SOME OR ALL THE LAND OF ANCIENT MACEDONIA FALLS INTO PRESENT DAY FYROM? No one in their right mind would look at borders from 2000 years ago and try to draw a correlation to a modern, artificially created country. The ONLY measure that should be used to determine ownership by occupation is the time the Slavs have been there. I'd say the Greeks beat them by at least 1500 years.

[Spartan]

I almos forgot.

As Euklid stated they are not hiding, they are where they always have been. They never get involved in politics. They only write about events after the fact. Unfortunately that is one draw back to being a historian and an Archaeologist, they only get involved after the fact. This is because they are beholden not to get involved according to the governing of Universities that recieve federal funding. This of course is at least in the U.S. Professors are not allowed to show political favoritism, otherwise they fear losing their tenure.

[Spartan]

I almost forgot.

As Euklid stated they are not hiding, they are where they always have been. They never get involved in politics. They only write about events after the fact. Unfortunately that is one draw back to being a historian and an Archaeologist, they only get involved after the fact. This is because they are beholden not to get involved according to the governing of Universities that recieve federal funding. This of course is at least in the U.S. Professors are not allowed to show political favoritism, otherwise they fear losing their tenure.

[Foti66]

May I offer another explanation. No academic circle in the entire world cares. Why would they? You are talking about a newly created country. It is a third world country at that. A balkan pisshole if you will. Why would any academician with any credibility confront the nonesense that comes out of there.

You think a serious scientist would even consider there new groundbreaking research on the rosetta stone and how they have discovered that the demotic Egyptian is actually a protoSlavic Macedonian language predating Ancient Greek.

These pseudoscientists are non-existent in today's world of academia and rightly so. Why would you want to dignify there stupidity with a response.

[Reaper]

You seem to misunderstand. The academic I quoted, Wood, is someone who is fascinated with Macedonia even today. In his programme for the BBC he was in constant contact with Greek friends back in Athens sending him the latest greek news. He is someone who believes Ancient and past cultures are connected as far as Greece is concerned. He always searches to connect the modern with the past, whether it be the decendants of last of the original Zoroastrians outside Persepolis or anyone else. In the Footsteps of Alexander he is constantly linking the past with present culturally:

We had met the last decendants of the Macedonian army [...] under the sacred peak of Tirich Mir.
In the footsteps of Alexander, Wood (BBC Books, 1997)

What I am trying to convey is when you have such a passion and a country claims to be the direct ancestors of the people you have been studying, it is easy to dismiss them publically, what seems more difficult is to pretend that there is not a new country called Macedonia by the world, that claims the people you have been famously studying in your life's work. He is aware that a statement from himself condemning this new nation would help Greece, and help the truth so much, but he is chosing the silent card, nice and safe. Many academics comment on current affairs, and those who deal with ancient history have also been known to put hypothesis forward or opinions based on legacy and current political issues, whether it be on the historical right of pakistan or Israel or how modern south Americans are connected to which ancient tribal people. The debate on Macedonia has been totally neglected, primarily in my opinion due to the UK and USA being pro FYROM and anyone like Wood knowing saying such a statement as that would aid Greece would land him in hot water, not with the FYROMians, but with the English and BBC.

All I was saying if it was me, and i had studied, written books and made huge documentries on a subject and dedicated my life to a people's history, and then suddenly this new nation comes on the seen claiming the name, direct decent from these ancients and claiming those who were previously thought to be the decendants as frauds, I think I might have something to say. I think the idea that Wood is being quite simply because their claims are ridiculous is weak.

[Amyntas]

Originally Posted by Spartan

Reaper you are correct about what you hear.

It is only around 20% of FYROM that lays(now understand this) within the borders of Ancient Macedonia AFTER EXPANSION UNDER PHILIP.

If you talk about the original homeland of the Ancient Macedonians on the North Slopes of Mt Olympus then NONE OF FYROM LAYS WITHIN ITS BORDERS.

20%?????

[Spartan]

Originally Posted by Giourkas

20%?????

After Philips expansion! Your map shows B.C. 362. Philips reign was
359-336.


Also please read carefully what I posted.

"If you talk about the original homeland of the Ancient Macedonians on the North Slopes of Mt Olympus then NONE OF FYROM LAYS WITHIN ITS BORDERS."